Template talk:Authority control

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Nomination for merging of Template:Infobox medical condition[edit]

Template:Infobox medical condition has been nominated for merging with Template:Authority control. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Alakzi (talk) 21:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Edit request[edit]

There is a pending TfD merge proposal involving this template @ Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 February 25#Template:Infobox medical condition. Will someone with the template editor bit please add the required TfD notice template? Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:21, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

"No value" as an acceptable value in Module:Authority control[edit]

@Legoktm, Jackmcbarn, and Tpt: Would one of you mind implementing "no value" in the VIAF identifier component as an acceptable value within the controlling module? It is an accepted value at Wikidata where a tracking date is added. If you are looking for a local page where you can see it in action please see Samuel Dyer. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:05, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: What behavior would you like the module to exhibit in the "no value" case? Jackmcbarn (talk) 19:11, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
@Jackmcbarn: "No value" / "no value" was my simplistic approach, though open to other suggestions. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:46, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
It would be great if the null value displayed in the edit mode said something like "searched but not found" and the date the last search was done. {{authority control|searched but not found|date=September 1, 2014}}. I don't think it will be universally understood what the null value means. I probably do a dozen searches a day hoping to find a VIAF number, this would let me know someone tried already. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 06:50, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
The requirement when "no value" is used, is to also add a "retrieved" qualifier with a date. I wouldn't think that you would want to display a qualifier though it may be useful as a popup. <shrug> — billinghurst sDrewth 08:56, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, German DE.wiki tracks such search failures for the value of parameter GND in its Normdaten template de:Vorlage:Normdaten. Having updated several, I initiated one last month: illustration: GNDfehlt; GNDCheck (revision since approved by another editor). The last two parameters report that someone looked and didn't find a GND value on 2015-02-06 (did find only the antepenultimate nameholder). These last three parameters (last and thus easy to find in the illustrated layout that everyone seems to follow) do not affect the template message but they inform editors who read the code. Perhaps they are used to generate some reports too. --P64 (talk) 22:02, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Quite right: The GNDfehlt (fehlt = missing) parameter is intended for differentiating between "accidentially" and "deliberately" missing GND parameters, thus is a way of expressing "no value". It must be accompanied by the GNDCheck parameter which controls a maintenance category subdivided by date. However GNDCheck is not only to be used with missing GND numbers but with any kind of (perceived) deficiency, namely the alternative or additional presence of an undifferentiated GND record (to be recorded in GNDname), or duplicate GND records or anything irregular reported in the request queue for the German National Library we have an established workflow with for almost 10 years. Thus "GNDCheck" stands for "last time an editor confirmed that there is an issue" which of course should imply a retrieval attempt at the date stated.
This mechanism was streamlined towards the specific workflow for GND numbers, actual reinspection of any record in the maintenance category is intended (and promising - about one million "fresh" GND records became visible at 2012-05, several 100.000 actors and other movie personell were integrated into the GND as recently as 2014-11, other integration projects for non-library, biographic resources are under way). The GND feedback for our report from May 2012 recently came in, thus with the oldest entries in the maintenance category being from 2012-03 we're not really lagging much behind. However after 2012-05 unfortunately the figures in the maintenance categories explode (B-league team members, athletes, members of state parliaments in the 1960s? - we don't yet know, the change in numbers is a consequence of the introduction of the GNDCheck parameter - before that there was no difference between inserting no AC template and inserting an empty one) and we will have to devise mechanisms to systematically re-check entries which are likely to be contained in the GND and at the same time skip those where the probability is near zero even after 5 or 10 years...
Knowing an AC number is a relatively stable situation or - thinking of redirections after merging of duplicate entries - changes in the authority files can be dealt with in an automatized way. Knowing that there is no AC number (as opposed to not knowing the AC number) is definitely of a different quality, things may change any minute either by additional items entering the Authority file or inclusion of additional data in the wikipedia article or the authority file enabling us to perform a match or simply if more experienced/insistent/lucky wikipedia editors are able to get more out of the same data. Tracking of retrieval dates in that situation IMHO is the first and basic step in any attempt to cope with that kind of "data about 'no data'" situation. -- Gymel (talk) 07:56, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Request to add "DAAO identifer" P1707[edit]

Would someone please be able to add "DAAO identifier" (d:Property:P1707) to the module/template. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:59, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Could you put the required code in the sandbox please and reactivate? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:44, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

IMDB and IBDB entry numbers as authority control numbers[edit]

Why don't we add the IMDB and IBDB profile number to the template? Currently it may appear in WIkipedia as a reference or as an external link, and as an external link it may or may not use the standard IMDB or IDBD template. We would then be the primary database that links VIAF to IMDB and IBDB numbers. We would tie together another authoritative source and standardize the display. The links as sources and external links can remain. It should be easy to migrate the numbers from the existing template automatically. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 18:19, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I'd be a bit more welcoming of IMDB since anything in the database is easily correctable. That is not true with IBDB, where correction requires one to submit a copy of the original program to the owners who will then decide if the entry is in need of updating. Not very transparent. I've found mistakes in IBDB but the task of fixing them is too onerous. Perhaps Ovrtur, since that is editable by members of the community proved to be reliable by the owners. kosboot (talk) 21:27, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
I find errors in VIAF weekly, and I know of no way to fix them or who to write to fix them. It is full of unmerged duplicates and errors in birth years, it is missing birth and death years for some entries ... yet we use it. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:42, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
These are not Authority control systems. If we're going to have a Template:PersonIdentifierInThirdPartyWebsite template, that would be a whole separate thing. Stuartyeates (talk) 21:32, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
They were not designed for authority control but we can make them into ones. We accept numbers from libraries that provide no utility to Wikipedia and the average reader. Why not accept the entry number from IMDB and IBDB. It would tie together more useful things than are currently tied together by VIAF alone. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 23:53, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

"We would then be the primary database that links VIAF to IMDB and IBDB numbers." Wikidata evidently hopes to be that database. ISFDB, IMDB, and IBDB identifiers are now within its scope.

I would prefer more progress there (where data entry is not yet the primary need, if i understand correctly, because basic points need resolution first). And someday see a more economical Authority control template message here. --P64 (talk) 01:27, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

We already link to MusicBrainz, the music equivalent of IMDB and IBDB only because they already incorporate the VIAF number. They are not an authority control system.


We are still displaying a 404 error to a French database. See Clarence Whitehill, for example. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 19:35, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

How many databases[edit]

How many databases should I be searching in? I see that sometimes the VIAF number forces other database identifiers to display. For other people I have to do a second search in the LCCN database, and then that forced WorldCat to display. What other databases should I be searching? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:00, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

1. If I understand what you mean: it is transclusion of template {{Authority control}} on the page, rather than assignment of its VIAF parameter therein, that "forces other database identifiers to display". The template message includes all those among our EN.wiki-selected identifiers whose values are provided on that Wikidata (WD) page, if any, which points here. Routinely (or universally?) the option Languages:"Edit links" appears in the left margin if a WD page points here; the option "Add links" appears if none does so.
Successful search at VIAF.org hits, among others, those clusters that show LCCN, GND, and other identifiers for the biography subject (literally "show" if you visit the cluster and mouseover the authority icon such as a national flag). Thus search at VIAF is commonly adequate.
interjection hours later: mouseover does not routinely show the template-ready ID format; eg, it does for GND but does not for LCCN -P64
2. The A.c. template message includes a WorldCat link if the LCCN value is at hand, either defined in the template or fetched from the WD page that points here.
Supposing that LC has not identified the person, thence assigned one or more LCCN, it may be valuable to add template {{Worldcat id}} with value np-lastname,%20firstname or viaf-[VIAF cluster number] --with a notice that WorldCat lists works by distinct people who share the name, if appropriate. Example: http://www.worldcat.org/identities/np-macleod,%20iain/ * {{WorldCat id|np-macleod,%20iain|Iain MacLeod}} generates
Similarly http://www.worldcat.org/identities/viaf-106143209/
--P64 (talk) 20:03, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Let me rephrase: Is there any way to automate the addition of LCCN once I add VIAF? Currently I am searching in the two databases and adding each, VIAF= and LCCN=. Nothing is coming from Wikidata since these biographies are being created ab initio. See for instance: User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )/Octave Homberg where my template reads {{authority control|VIAF=267759514|LCCN=n90602432}} --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 20:20, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
I suppose that we don't take identifiers from VIAF clusters automatically, nor does Wikidata, because more careful work here and at WD is part of the process that develops (improves, proves) the VIAF clusters. And that VIAF does not cluster identifiers automatically from Wikipedia footers and WD pages for the same reason. Libraries such as LC and DNB must hope, too, that we will report their failures to group works by creator.
Some knowledge of the VIAF workflow may be acquired at the companion Wikipedia talk page, and now its new subpage Wikipedia talk:Authority control/VIAF, where User:Ralphlevan from VIAF participates.
Re: Octave Homberg. Why select VIAF=267759514? Naive search for 'Homberg, Octave' at VIAF.org returns a list of hits from which I would select the first, VIAF: 89098578, rather than the second as you have done. In turn, for me that would conclude a "successful search" (per above) because VIAF has bundled many authority pages in that cluster, including all of those with identifiers that I would define locally--LCCN, GND, BNF, SUDOC--one of which is that LCCN you presumably found by search at LOC.gov (I say without checking validity of the Homberg cluster, except that its LCCN page looks good).
Commonly, useful identifiers must be gleaned only from multiple clusters that naive search returns (perhaps true for the majority of entries at Wikipedia:VIAF/errors#Parallel VIAF clusters for one identity, as for the majority of my entries there). Sometimes, multiple searches are fruitful. --P64 (talk) 23:33, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
@Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): "Is there any way to automate the addition of LCCN once I add VIAF?" Yes, some Wikipedias have tools like this, see for example de:Benutzer:Schnark/js/personendaten/normdaten. --Kolja21 (talk) 23:26, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Maintenance category?[edit]

Should a maintenance category be added to this template, similar to Category:Official website different in Wikidata and Wikipedia, so editors can review and make the appropriate fixes? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 21:33, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

@GoingBatty: There is the Category:VIAF different on Wikidata. Still missing: Category:GND different on Wikidata. --Kolja21 (talk) 00:31, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia articles with SBN identifiers[edit]

Can you please add the tracking category for SBN identifiers (i.e. libraries in Italy)?

Category:Wikipedia articles with SBN identifiers

See also the relevant Wikidata item to be connected (d:Q18174792)

Thanks, best regards, --Accurimbono (talk) 10:37, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

BTW: Wouldn't it be time to export all authority data to Wikidata (= delete them from the English Wikipedia)? This would save us a lot of work. --Kolja21 (talk) 15:47, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Agree, move already done in it.wiki. Authority identifiers are taken from Wikidata. --Accurimbono (talk) 08:59, 17 April 2015 (UTC)