Talk:Criminal tattoo

level of info

I think the level of info for the Japanese section is currently about right. I'm based in Europe so don't know much about the US stuff. Please add anything you know! If there are other countries you can add (Mexico and S America?) please do! I have a copy of Baldaev's book and will try to add a bit more on the Russian stuff.

I have edited the info on the Aryan Brotherhood tattoos. I took out the claim they where founded in Idaho (I'm 99% sure it was Californa. Like "If it didn't say Idaho I'd be 100%" 99% sure) and added the fact that their shamrock tends to have "666" incorporated into it and why, also noted the fact the AB often hides the letters AB and "666" into other, less criminaly oriented tattoos. I'd like to add some information on American street gang tattoos but I'm not sure how to organize it, I'd say its a case of knowing to much to know where to start. What immeditatly pops to mind are the Six and Five point stars and crowns, but I'd probably start rambling about how Six point gangs tend to nominal allies while alot of Five point gangs have nothing to do with each other (and many are indeed enemies of pretty much anyone and everyone outside of their own gang). I don't know, I'd like to see the purely american gang tattoo culture represented but I can't write artical quality worth shit. -- Lich —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.164.212 (talk) 07:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

for some reason

For some reason the version shown on screen is not the latest version. I suspect this may be due to a cached version but maybe there's a glitch in the wiki?

Pics

It would be nice to have some pics of tatts in question.

• Nothing here about swallow tattoos on the necks and hands? I've always thought that this was a British prison thing.

• swallows are a sailor tattoo i thought?

• • Swallow tattoo's are a "safe passage" tattoo. Nothing to do with criminals specifically. --Threatis 13:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

• • • Could be but I can'tthink of one person I know of with the swallows on hands who hasn't been isnide, and been told that it's something someone gets done at the end of a longer sentence to symbolise freedom. Just a thought though, probably has roots from all over.

teardop

I had heard that the teardrop tattoo by the eye meant that the one displaying it had killed a police officer ... anyone else heard this?

It actually stands for a fallen brother when they display the teardrop.

Just in case you wanted to know, the US rapper "the Game" has one of thse below his eye after his brother got shot dead

It can mean 1. You've killed someone (not neccisarly a cop) 2. Someone you loved was killed/in prison 3. One tear drop for every ten years you've served (not are sentenced to). Gang/Ghetto tattoos are very subjective. Bloods and Crips might use the same exact tattoo but have completely diffrent meanings, or the above is true but the tattoo has been around for decades with a diffrent meaning then they choose. Just examples. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.164.212 (talk) 06:51, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

The tattoo has been around for decades and usually has a reference to prison.

Before all the celebrities started getting them it was a very bad tattoo to have. Depending on the region or prison it meant you were either raped in prison, property of a prisoner(s) as a sex slave or a child molester. It was forcefully applied on the face as a branding so the humiliation could never be covered up and they'd always be a target no matter what prison they went to.

When these guys got out of jail they were too ashamed to say what it meant so it was common to say it meant they killed someone while inside, yet it was quite obvious if they didn't serve extra time for the murder it wasn't true.

Times have changed and a lot of us older folk see this kids with the tear tattoo and shudder for a moment, to me it brings back memories of disgust, people to avoid. If only the kids knew the true origins and how uncool it is they'd think twice before wilfully branding themselves in this way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.82.40 (talk) 03:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Another one

A dot between the knuckle and joint of the pointer finger on the right hand and a dot on each finger between the knuckle and joint of the left hand (minus the thumb) is a northside tattoo. I don't got a reference but I know for a fact I am correct if anyone wants to look for one. 70.96.235.178 20:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Russian Tatto?

This page still needs a lot of work, and I can't tell if the Russian tattoos are an elaborate joke.

My main query however this line:

• Swastika - is forcibly applied to forehead and marks one for death, or is a sign of rebellion against russian prison authority. Is not usually associated with the nazi swastika.

If it marks one for death why would anyone want to have it tattooed for any other reason?! Bug 13:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The russian page isn't an elaborate joke, it maybe incomplete and even inaccurate in some specific meanings. But it's basically on the right lines.

I don't know about a Swastika on the forehead. But within a "normally" placed tattoo it isn't a nazi logo or a death sentence: it's more a willing show of defiance against the CCCP/soviet system (think of WW2 Eastern Front ie. your enemy is my friend). It doesn't even seemed to be used as an anti-semitic sign.

Not saying that there aren't plenty of anti-semitic tattoos, but the ones I've seen are more male stereotypical portrait type (hooked nose etc.)

--Selton1968 00:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The clue to the answer to "if it marks one for death why would anyone want to have it tattooed..?" lies in the phrase "forcibly applied". The person wanting it tattooed (i.e. commissioning the tattoo) is not the wearer. Russian forehead tattoos are usually derogatory (to put it mildly!) and not voluntary.

Velada (talk) 01:37, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually I've got to be honest and say I'm not convinced on the accuracy of any of these entries. I know, for example, a crusifix on your chest actually indicates you served time in a specific czech prison. A good rule of thumb for russian tattoos: If the symbolism makes sense.... Your wrong. Russian Tattoos seem to be almost randomly picked and their meaning just universaly accepted. The picture has nothing, what so ever, to do with what it represents. I suspect that the "Theives in Law" spread alot of disinformation about what their tattoos mean. Also, it says something about raping a child to be worthy of despise inside a russian prison. Frankly fellas, as sad and sick as it is... No, it's not considered a cardnial sin with any Russian's I've ever met through my work. They may not be pedophiles themselves, but if pimping an eight year old makes them a thousand dollars an hour they have no reservations. Of course the three I know are not "Theive's in Law". Why is their no mention of the Ex-Military "Bitch" faction? -- Lich —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.164.212 (talk) 04:41, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Danzig Baldaev (who was a prison guard for 50 years, having been brought up in a Soviet orphanage after his anthropologist father was sent to the GuLAG) gave an explanation to the effect that 'prisoners in eastern camps are less tolerant of sexual offenders than those in western [i.e. western USSR]ones'; the point being that the western camps tended to contain the professional criminals, whilst the Siberian camps, like those in Kolyma, tended to have more political offenders (who were more likely to share society's norms regarding such matters).

Alix Lambert's book contains several interviews with vor v zakone bemoaning the fact that in the 'New Russia' there is a new breed of criminal, who don't respect the old codes; and that their tattoos are no longer accorded 'proper respect'.

From her interviews, it seems the tattoos are in a state of flux; some interviewees felt tattoos no longer had specific meaning, others felt that there would be a resurgence, as hierarchies sorted themselves. Baldaev lists tattoos collected over his entire career; so some of the things on the list may be obsolete.

As for the Bitches - they were a faction of the vor v zakone who collaborated with the authorities; so initially, and amongst themselves, they would have the same tattoos. A "Bitch" who found himself in a camp dominated by traditionalist vori might soon find himself with a forehead tattoo indentifying him as suki (Bitch), though! Velada (talk) 19:25, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

the yakuza

There is nothing included in the page about the Yakuza and their tradition of tattooing members. A section on the Yakuza is most definitely needed. -sohoisdead 20.3.07

What references?

Why is the Russian section in particular tagged as needing references, when in fact it is the only subsection to give explicit references? (Although I assume the weblinks may supply references for other sections.)

Velada (talk) 01:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

re: recent deletion of entire unsourced sections

I wonder if any attempt was made to actually help out and FIND a source for all that material instead of just outright deleting it. Was it really likely to be challenged? Was the {{refimprove}} tag not enough? Did you forget that our goal is building an encyclopedia not tearing it down? <disgruntled>. -- OlEnglish ^(Talk) 21:30, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Have to agree, i came looking for the meaning of the clock without hands prison tatoo, and i had to look in the history section to find that.77.213.191.134 (talk) 15:28, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Because of here mentioned rigorous deletion the redirect from ACAB to Criminal tattoo#Britain and Ireland doesn't make sence anymore. Nlwiki (talk) 12:28, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Here's a link to how the article looked just before it was gutted. -- œ^™ 19:49, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

You say "gutted" I say "brought into closer compliance to our policies of verification and no original research."-- The Red Pen of Doom 21:59, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

And now out of spite you delete the entire Russian section to prove your point? It seems you've forgotten to also delete the list of references. You don't have to take it out on the article just because you're sore that other editors here disagree with your judgment in editing. I won't revert because I'm just not that willing to fight for this article, but my assessment of the situation stands. -- œ^™ 00:18, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

ACAB

The ACAB page redirects to here but all the material relating to the meaning of ACAB was deleted in 2009 by a blocked user. The Red Pen of Doom Yet it was never reinstated.

Europe==
Britain and Ireland==
A.C.A.B. is an acronym often integrated into prison tattoos in the United Kingdom. It is most commonly rendered with one letter between the knuckle and first joint of each finger, sometimes as symbolic small dots with or without the accompanying letters. A.C.A.B. can stand for All Coppers Are Bastards, or Always Carry A Bible, depending on who is asking and whether the bearer is trying to make a good impression. The British Oi! Punk band, the 4-Skins popularized the acronym A.C.A.B. in their 1970's song of the same name. It is currently in common usage as a phrase and tattoo amongst the radical European football fans known as Ultras. Bohemians Firm the BSC support tattoos of the slogan. A similar tattoo consists of the letters A.P.A.B. (All Pigs Are Bastards, "pig" in this context being derogatory slang term for police officer).

The Borstal mark (or "Borstal spot") is an Indian ink dot, usually located between the thumb and forefinger of the right hand. Borstals were UK youth detention centers, and the mark was traditionally obtained during an offender's first period of imprisonment. The borstal mark has been considered a status symbol among some criminals. The "Borstal Glove" consists of a tattooed outline of the back of the hand. A dot on the cheek bone is a diluted version of the borstal 'tear', a sign of completing a sentence at Borstal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.57.68 (talk) 23:00, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

I was going to say what the above said, I think acab needs it's own page94.168.210.123 (talk) 22:05, 11 July 2010 (UTC)