Talk:AC Cobra

Shelby Cobra

I've given plenty of time for a rebuttal to my earlier comments. Getting to the point. It's a volatile issue, but any references to an 'AC Cobra' in this thread needs to be changed to 'Shelby Cobra' or 'Shelby American Cobra'. Shelby American is the lawful manufacturer of record for these cars, and this was decided in a court of law when Brian Angliss...then owner of the old Auto Carrier company....signed a document conceding that this was indeed the case. The fact that these cars were both sold and titled with Shelby American VIN numbers, and that a Shelby American facility was the site of final assembly for all of the original Cobras, should have told us this without the need for litigation but the court agreement makes it rock solid. If anybody can find a more compelling reference regarding the manufacturer of record for these cars I'll be glad to entertain it, otherwise I'm going to properly reference the court's findings and change the page.Syr74 (talk) 15:52, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

AC Cobra/Shelby Cobra

For some reliable background information, I recommend: "Shelby Cobra" by Dave Freidman, company photographer for the Shelby works and raceteam from '62 to '65 and "AC/Ford/Shelby Cobra Super Profile" by Rod Grainger. I started with some edits based on these sources. Aburgt 11:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

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This article is terribly inaccurate and noticeably biased in many areas. These cars are not an AC anything and are, in fact, Shelby American Cobras. The reasons for this are both simple and a matter of record.

First, as the article itself states a court of law reviewed the evidence and found Shelby American to be the manufacturer of record for the car. Unfortunately, the article incorrectly states that the court found that Shelby American was the manufacturer of record for the 'AC Cobra'. This statement makes no sense on its face since the very purpose of the court decision in question was to decide wether these cars were Shelby automobiles or not. For the statement to be correct it should instead read that the court found the manufacturer of record to be Shelby American acknowledging the fact that these cars were Shelby Cobras.

Arguably this should have been obvious without the intervention of a court of law since every Shelby Cobra ever produced bore a 'CSX' series Shelby VIN number meaning that they were built and sold as a Shelby American product with final assembly taking place in a Shelby American facility. AC never contested this during the original production run and would later lose the only legal contest held regarding the matter as indicated above. It might also be worth mentioning that while the original, small-block powered Cobra is based on a chassis originally designed by, and always manufactured by, Auto Carrier the 427 powered Cobra roadsters manufactured later were designed almost exclusively by Shelby American with the assistance of Ford Motor Company with no serious engineering involvement on the part of AC, athough the British firm did still produce the chassis for these cars.

The above aside, inaccuracies and omissions within the article abound. For example. Why is the history and development of the AC Ace upon which the small-block Cobra is based covered while neither the evolution of the small-block powered cars or the development of the big-block powered cars by Shelby American is mentioned in any meaningful way? The AC Ace deserves a mention here to be sure, but it would seem that a simple refernce with a link to the page for the AC Ace containing the information in question would be more than sufficient and far more effecient. As the article stands it displays obvious bias appearing in fact to be the product of a pro-AC agenda. The lack of information regarding the Cobra itself, particularly those of the big block variety, is so sweeping that it makes this page virtually useless. Need I even mention that weasel words abound?

Another example of inaccuracy is the reference to the 'Turd' indicating that this was the same car Shelby first attempted to fit a big block FE engine into. This is, in fact, incorrect with the 'Turd' and the initial big block mule in question being two seperate cars. I could go on by I don't see the point.

This article needs a complete and immediate revision.

(76.177.76.250 18:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)Syr74)

I believe the comment below is an emotional response, and this webpage is not bogus. To summarize: AC built 80% of the car, while Shelby put an engine in it, sold it, and led its race team. Because of Shelby's marketing, in the US we call the car the "Shelby Cobra", while the rest of the world calls it the "AC cobra" or just plain "Cobra".Mark Eby 16:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Wow, the bias an unabashed bias surrounding this vehicle are amazing. When I have the time i will devote far more of it than I should, or should have to, to fix the slew of problems with this page. Unfortunately given the amazing amount of misinformation and bias on this page keeping it that way may prove an even larger challenge. The really unfortunate thing....people come to this site and read articles like this not understanding that they are only as 'good' as the person/s who typed them. Issues like this need to be fixed as quickly as possible.(Syr74 06:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)SYR74)

This webpage is bogus. AC never made a Cobra. Only Shelby made the Cobra. The Shelby Cobra was based on the coackwork of the AC Ace. Lokisgodhi 13:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't be silly. AC made the car, AC did most of the modifications required in order to fit the V8, Ford built the Engine..what did Shelby do again? oh, he assembled all the components that were supplied by other people.

besides its better for the car's image to think of it as British, everyone knows that European cars are the best in the world, and to call it American, will make people think that it is a poor quality car.Sennen goroshi 04:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Since the car is known as either, would it not make sense to change the title to AC/Shelby Cobra and point out that it is known as both and why it is so. It should be pointed out that AC made the chassis, bodywork, Ford made the engine and drive-train and Shelby fitted them together (with significant modification and engineering effort). Additionally, this article should not take sides in this kind of debate, but instead should highlight its existence and present the facts as they stand and allow the reader to decide for themselves, at least until some overwhelming evidence is found to back up either side. BTW, courts are not the arbitrator of truth and it wouldn't surprise me that if you asked a British court, the answer was different. FWIW, with the exception of some very small amount of quite recent American literature, I have never seen the Cobra referred to as anything other than an AC Cobra. Nasty 11:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The same sort of argument's going on at the Ford GT40 page. Both cars were designed and built in Britain, with the only American input being the V8 engine - and the original GT40s were only available in right hand drive. 'Anglo-American' seems about right for a description for both - unless any of you prefer 'American-engined British car' - or 'British car with an American engine' - they certainly weren't 'American' cars. Perhaps you'd prefer 'British kit car' as a lot of engineless cars were shipped to the US for fitting the V8.

Alternatively, if you are really sure that they are classed as 'American' because American money paid for them then perhaps you'd like to 'mosy on' over to the North American P-51 Mustang page, and change all references to 'American fighter airplane' to 'British fighter aeroplane', as that was designed in the US for the British who paid North American cash for the designing and for the first hundred-or-so of them built.

Possible urban myth, but my housemate swore he heard it on the radio: a little old lady being interviewed had apparently owned one of each model AC Cars produced as they were introduced. Her favourite was the Cobra. She was most particular about having it serviced, and she had her own way of checking the mechanic hadn't screwed up her car. She would take it out onto the motorway and get it up to 70 mph. She would then floor the accelerator and time how long it took to reach 100 mph (some ridiculously short time IIRC). If it was "sluggish" (!) she would immediately return it and complain. Phil 12:36, Dec 10, 2003 (UTC)

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I've linked to replica car but would kit car be more appropriate? --Phil 08:53, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)

Replica is better. Some Cobra replicas are kits, but some are delivered complete. Some are only 'kits' to avoid taxes and/or regulatory requirements, and require only very simple assembly. —Morven 08:57, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

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Is the car called the AC Cobra or the Shelby Cobra? I never heard the AC name used on the Cobra before, but I see some web references to both... --SFoskett 04:28, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

It could depend on which side of the Atlantic you are. // Liftarn

What about the DC Cobra, or the AC/DC Cobra? Gzuckier 14:16, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wouldn't The DC Cobras be a great name for a band?Gzuckier 14:16, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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"There are Cobra Clubs around the country where enthusiasts meet and ride." What country would that be?

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Some text about the Cobra Daytona (the racing berlinetta version) will be a great improvement. Ericd 14:31, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

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Regarding the COBRA "DAYTONA" COUPE ("Covered Cobras"):

I'm no auto racing expert but have learned a good deal about these six cars recently. According to fairly voluminous information about them, their development, racing success and subsequent individual vehicle histories is fascinating and deserves a greatly expanded section.

An important correction seems to be in order regarding the strange coincidence that there are (were) two prominent auto racing personalities named "Peter Brock." The American version led Shelby's program to field a 'Ferrari killer' in the mid 1960s and is alive and well and recently heavily involved in the Superformance LeMans Coupe development program (mentioned here as the Hi-Tech South African replicar effort).

The beloved Australian racer and developer Peter Brock was recently killed in a rally there driving, by strange coincidence, a 'Daytona' reproduction car. (photo and caption substantially correct.)

BTW: The "Daytona" moniker was apparently coined by the automotive press when I believe the first (and perhaps also being the only American-built) copy of the 'Brock Cobra Coupe' was prematurely disabled (destroyed?) in a pit fire during the course of decisively trouncing the factory Ferraris in its first outing at Daytona.

Picture

I took this picture 2 days ago but i dont know how to put it up (or who to check with to see if it could be useful for the article). If anybody could help me out, it would be great. Here is the link http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/526/img2314hq5.jpg Sorry about the trouble, im pretty much new to this.

go to here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload Gzuckier 20:23, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Kirkham Motorsports

This bit seems a bit suspicious, it sounds almost like Kirkham added it themselves. I mean if these replicas are supposed to be good then fine, but it doesn't need to go on about it quite so much, and there are many more high quality replicas too, not just Kirkham.--Santahul 16:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Not true. Kirkham makes by far the best and most accurate replica. Yes, there are other decent replicas but nothing comes close to a Kirkham. Current Shelby replicas and Kirkham replicas are also the only replicas built with aluminum bodies. As mentioned, Kirkham supplies the aluminum bodies for the current replicas built under the Shelby name. Kirkham definitely deserves a detailed mention in this space.

For sure they deserve a mention, but not a two paragraph advertisement!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.206.245.192 (talk) 13:28, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

Cobra Replica Distortions

This article is becoming perverted by a continuing effort to promote the advertising interests of Kirkham, who are only one of a large number of Cobra replica suppliers. The text used has been highly distorted and has actively disparaged all other replica manufacturers, some of whom produce very high quality products. In any case Cobra replicas are not a relevant topic in this article anyhow. If replicas are to be dealt with it should be in a fair and comprehensive treatment. As for the right to describe a car as a Cobra it should be pointed out that the rights to the Cobra name and logo ultimately rests with Ford, and in 1987 Ford granted AC Cars under Brian Angliss the right to the name and logo in all countries but the USA, withholding the USA rights. Ford by 1987 had a controlling interest in AC Cars Ltd. Both Shelby and AC Cars products in the 80’s and 90’s both warrant the name Cobra, from a historic as well as a legal perspective. Howie770 19:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

In Popular Culture: Gunsmith Cats entry is flat-out wrong

Rally Vincent, the lead character in Gunsmith Cats, owns a Shelby Cobra GT500 -- a Mustang, not an AC Ace. She has been shown driving an AC Shelby and against an AC Shelby, but it isn't her car. I don't like just deleting things outright, so I'll post this and leave it for a while, then edit the main page (which I'm going to do anyway since it has some minor typos like spelling 'shelby' as 'shebly' and such.)

Possibly going back into production?

Hasn't there been talk of the Cobra going back into production, with an updated appearance? http://www.pistonheads.com/Ginetta/default.asp?storyId=17208 <-- This one seems to be bandied about the most often. --98.232.188.173 (talk) 07:32, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

"COB 1"

This was the (UK) registration number of a twin-turbocharged 1967 427 good for about 700 bhp, which used to belong to Hertfordshire classic car dealer Rod Leach and appears to have been sold at auction in 1998. It was on display in HR Owen in South Kensington for a while when I was a Penniless Student Oaf in the early 80s. Anyone got any more info, as all I could glean from Leach's adverts in long-gone magazine "Supercar Classics" that it was up for sale at the time when the bottom dropped out of the classic car market in the early 90s.Mr Larrington (talk) 15:12, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

1 COB (is that the same car?) is currently (Oct 2011) available to drive around Goodwood circuit, courtesy of Mithril Racing. I drove her in fine weather yesterday and can confirm that she's in excellent condition! ColynK (talk) 12:29, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

"Coupes or Coupé"

I'm puzzled by the section heading "Coupes or Coupé". There seems no need to highlight the alternative spellings in this way -- unless the issue is of notable significance to the subject, which seems not to be the case since it is not even mentioned in the main text. I also don't understand the plural ("Coupes") versus singular (Coupé) distinction. I would normally just change it to, say "Coupés", but I'm wondering if I'm missing some point. 81.157.197.168 (talk) 00:32, 22 April 2010 (UTC).

Picture of AC Cobra Mk 1.

This is actually a picture of an AC Ace. The car that preceeded the Cobra. The picture should be removed, or clarified that it is the car that AC constructed prior to the AC/Shelby Cobra. (Not sure how to edit pictures at this point in time.) TwoManyMinis (talk) 01:12, 2 September 2010 (UTC)TwoManyMinis

Peter Brock...

Someone added that Peter Brock (designer of the Cobra Coupe) was killed in a race in Australia in 2006. The Aussie racer Peter Brock was a different person. Check the disambiguation list, there are two Peter Brocks involed with cars and racing. The Peter Brock involved with Shelby is happily still alive.

Whoever added that to this entry was very careless... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bassetman4 (talk • contribs) 17:07, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect Fact

I apologize, I'm new to editing Wikipedia and I'm not sure if this is the correct way to point this out, but I noticed an inaccuracy on one of the pages but hesitated to delete the fact altogether. Thus, I am making a note of it here.

The Quote: The Cobra was perhaps too successful as a performance car and reputedly contributed to the implementation of national speed limits in the United Kingdom. An AC Cobra Coupe was calculated to have done 186 mph (299 km/h) on the M1 motorway in 1964, driven by Jack Sears and Peter Bolton during shakedown tests prior to that year's Le Mans 24h race.[6]

The Inaccuracy: I looked up the source which refers to a different car, albeit one derived from the AC Cobra Cope. Specifically, the car referred to by citation #6 is the Shelby Daytona Coupe. The AC Cobra Coupe was drag limited to a much lower speed, but my cursory search for a source on this turned up nothing. Nevertheless, the fact above misrepresents which car reached 186.

WRXspec (talk) 21:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Mark I, Mark II and Mark III

The book AC Cobra by Rinsey Mills ISBN 1-85960-849-3 contains a comprehensive list of AC Cobra chassis numbers. This list does not designate the original leaf spring chassis as Mark anything (Speculation that Mark I is a retronym, since it was not used until production of the next generation began.) Two of the original series, chassis numbers CSX 2701 and CSX 2702 became the first two Mark II chassis with the coil spring suspension and the 427 engine. These chassis were renumbered CSX 3001 and CSX 3002. This book designates the Coil spring chassis as Mark II (pg 118 and pg 152.) Nowhere in this book have I encountered a reference to a "Mark III" I am reticent to make such extensive modifications to the article without additional citations but I am confident that there was not a Mark III Shelby Cobra. Qwy47 (talk) 08:00, 15 April 2011 (UTC)