Talk:Alberto Santos-Dumont

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The Wrights' catapult

As it is, one very strong Brazilian point of contention is that the Wrights depended on a catapult to make their Flyer take off. Samuel Langley used a catapult, but I have not found non-Brazilian evidence that the Wrights did. Apparently -- I have found printed reference, but have yet to look it up again --, in the early 1900s one American journalist mixed them up and reported of the Wrights using the catapult. If such is the case, it would seem that some of the wind could be driven off the catapult argument. SrAtoz (talk) 16:33, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

The Wright Catapults are heavilly documented everywhere, not only in Brazil. Just check US pages about the Wright, and you will see lots of info. However, the Wrights did not use the catapult at first. On Kitty Hawk, they used rails to overcome the sand. Some say that the dunes were used to lay the rail on an inclined fashion, allowing the plane to gain speed through the help of gravity. However, at least once Wilbur mentioned in a telegram that they were able to take off with the rail "laid flat". This day, however, he mentions that there was a significant breeze (head wind).

In 1904, in the Huffman Praire, the Wright Bros. documented several failed attempts to take off using the rail. They also claim about 2 successfull take-offs with significant head wind. By September, they built and started to use the catapult to assist on take off, which they have used from then onwards.

In 1908, the Wright Bros. presented themselves in Europe and tried to set some World Records mantained by the FIA. When they made a 56 minute flight (to the astonished Europeans), the record was denied because of the use of the catapult. It was then that Wilbur removed the track and took off without the catapult and wheels, having his record homologated.

Anyway, this is what is behind some of the comments saying that the Wright Bros could not take-off unassisted, an affirmation I think is correct (in 1903-1905). Because of its low power, it needed assistance of either: The gravity (inclined rails), catapult or WIND.

Nelbr 88.0.116.1 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:38, 14 February 2010 (UTC).

By the way, here is a US government link that describes part of what is said above:

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Wright_Bros/1904/WR7.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.0.116.1 (talk) 11:45, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Questions on 1945 Newsreel clip

Monoplane seen at 23 seconds in File:First flights in aviation history.ogg; link to full size

Biplanes seen at 29 seconds

Landed biplane seen at 33 seconds

Can anyone provide more details to the description of the video Commons:File:First flights in aviation history.ogg shown at the right? I have added this line for the part relevant to Santos-Dumont:

21 to 32 seconds: man with hat; monoplane landing; two biplanes in flight; "Alberto Santos-Dumont on 13 September 1909, the Brazilian pioneer airman, made the first aeroplane flight in all Europe"

Questions:

The single engined monoplane at 23 seconds is presumably the same as that seen in flight from 25 to 28 seconds. Which model might it be?

What are the flying biplanes seen at 29 to 30 seconds?

What is the landed biplane at 33 seconds?

Where did the 13 September 1909 flight take place? September 1909 and 1909 in aviation#September have nothing.

Thanks. -84user (talk) 17:48, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Curiosities

I've removed the following addition to the article:

CURIOSITIES

Many consider Orville and Wilbur Wright's parents aviation. What few know is that according to the words of the brothers, only five people attended the your flight (no manifested today) and there is evidence of your flight, according to the brothers. A strange curiosity is that Wilbur called the President of the French aero club, asking for details of the plane 14-bis of Santos-Dumont, in 1908, two years after the flight of the 14-Bis. If the brothers had made a flight because they wanted details of the plane Dumont?

Source: Great-nephew of Santos-Dumont: Antônio Dumont; Brazilian Museum of Inventors; The book "Seis tombos e um pulinho. As aventuras de Santos-Dumont até inventar o 14-bis", VILLARES, Marcos

I'm not entirely sure what the point of this section was, but at the very least the English needs cleaning up. --grummerx (talk) 21:28, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Irrelevant Paragraph

The following paragraph keeps being added. It has nothing to do with Santos Dumont, it's all about the Wright brothers, and doesn't belong here.

With less fanfare, there was an assisted take off, 10 months earlier, between 26 September and 5 October 1905, when American aviators Orville and Wilbur Wright had completed a series of six dramatic "long flights" ranging from 17 to 38 minutes and 11 to 24 miles (39 km) around the three-quarter mile course over Huffman Prairie, near Dayton, Ohio. Wilbur made the last and longest flight, 24.5 miles (39.4 km) in 38 minutes and 3 seconds, ending with a safe landing when the fuel ran out. The flight was seen by a number of people, including several invited friends, their father Bishop Milton Wright, and neighboring farmers.

217.44.141.1 (talk) 13:08, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

It appears that the reason for the statement was to counter many suppositions as to the rival claim of the Wrights. Leave it in place unless you have a consensus for change. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 13:12, 21 February 2010 (UTC).

Ferber quote

I don't see what this contributes to the article. The letter actually claims the rail/catapult system is more pactical because it does not need a large field, and surely the stuff about "two poor mechanics" is just a slightly tongue in cheek excuse. The catapult & rail would not have harder to transport thn the crated aircraft.TheLongTone (talk) 01:36, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

nationality

If his father was French the soon was too. Since the father was French when he went to Brazil and that it is not possible to loose a French nationality (well, not in theses conditions), the most probable is that the father was French or maybe French-Brazilian, and so was the soon. Most likely Santos Dumont had a dual nationality, that would explain a lot of the story. v_atekor (talk) 07:46, 3 November 2011 (UTC)