Talk:Algeria

GDP A JOKE?

GDP $659 billion? check the source given (IMF), it's $139 billion in 2009. please correct that —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.227.197.191 (talk) 05:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree! IP 68.147.201.79 has been vandalizing this article, I have corrected the GDP figures once for it to get vandalized again by the same person! A moderator needs to lock that data from being edited! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.209.34.22 (talk) 05:20, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

PLEASE SOMEONE BLOCK THAT TROLL! he did it again! GDP is wrong and he/she knows it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.227.197.191 (talk) 00:30, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Maps

According with some European countries consensus, many countries discussed about these two maps, Algeria not yet, but it seems that european users think to have the right to change all maps of Africa because it. Obviously the orange one looks more professional and all the continent is separated with the world.--TownDown ^{How's it going?} 14:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I must confess that it's difficult to understand your English, but I take it that you try to argue the case that your maps are better? Be that as it may, we follow consensus here on Wikipedia and your way forward should be to try to convince others about the quality of your maps, not to engage in an edit war against the established consensus. And please refrain from dragging in other contributors' nationalities, it is completely irrelevant and doesn't strengthen your argument one bit.JdeJ (talk) 19:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't accuse me to convince others about quality of my maps or dragging in other contributors' nationalities. You can be reported. --TownDown ^{How's it going?} 21:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

So first you use other's ethnicity in your arguments, then you threaten with reporting me when I point that out. As I've said before, it's deplorable that you always resort to intimidation instead of trying to argue your case with factual arguments.JdeJ (talk) 09:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

The proponent has been temporarily blocked for edit warring and incivility, directly arising from the addition of maps of this style to a number of articles. Not only is the map (with a horrid Mercator projection) inconsistent with the locator maps in most country articles but has done so without substantial discussion and limited to no consensus. This map is not agreeable; consequently, I have restored the prior long-standing map. I believe a renewed consensus needs to be demonstrated before the map is changed again. Thoughts? Bosonic dressing (talk) 02:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Climate

"The highest official temperature was 50.6 °C (123.1 °F) at In Salah."[41]

Official maybe, but given that El-Azizia in neighbouring Libya has apparently recorded 58^C (136.4^F), I think one of two things is true, Either Algeria's figure is too low, or El Azizia's is too high. A difference of 7.4^C between the two national records is simply not credible in my view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meltingpot (talk • contribs) 11:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Meltingpot (talk) 11:36, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

(Or of course both could be true; Algeria's record could be too low and Libya's too high.)

Meltingpot (talk) 08:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Language, again

"all Algerian dialects are in fact an arabic-berber mix, none is pure arabic or pure berber"

Can't we get this pseudo information out of here? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_language and ask for example the author of the blog http://lughat.blogspot.com/ 91.152.248.219 (talk) 20:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the above. While it is true that Algerian Arabic has a Berber substratum and it is equally true that the Berber languages have been influence by Arabic, that statement makes it seem as if Berber and Arabic are dialects of the same language or at least very closely related. As that is not the case, the statement is misleading.JdeJ (talk) 20:30, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Berber World

Algeria is considered by Berbers to be a part of the Berber World.

This affirmation is not clear. It came after mentioning Algeria's affiliation to known international entities (to my knowledge there is no international organization named Berber World). The problem lies in "What is the Berber World?". After clicking the wiki-link, it redirected me to Berber People article. A google test gave only 1,420 hits. This misleading part will be removed unless verifiable information are provided. --Bestofmed™〈msg↵〉 14:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I've removed it. carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 20:55, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Inconsistency

The information box lists Algeria as a single-party state but the politics segment says it has 40 parties. I take it the latter is true.

Plagiarism

The information pertaining to the climate of Algeria under the geography section can also be found at this address: http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/atlas/qt/climateAlgeria.htm Climate information belongs in a separate subsection titled "Climate" and it should be original writing. Thoughts? TravisWichtendahl (talk) 07:20, 19 July 2009 (UTC)TravisWichtendahl

Economic role of women

The following paragraph is sourced to a reliable source, but has been removed twice [1] [2] by a new editor for no obvious reason. This material is clearly relevant to the Demographics section, and I am restoring it. The same editor is also blanket reverting other minor edits, e.g. grammar corrections. Please keep an eye on this.

Women make up 70 percent of Algeria's lawyers and 60 percent of its judges. Women dominate medicine. Increasingly, women are contributing more to household income than men. Sixty percent of university students are women, according to university researchers.<ref>{{cite news|last=Slackman |first=Michael |url=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/26/world/africa/26algeria.html |title=A Quiet Revolution in Algeria: Gains by Women - New York Times |doi=Algeria |publisher=Nytimes.com |date=May 26, 2007 |accessdate=2008-11-24}}</ref>

85.94.186.91 (talk) 00:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC) [3] see the links —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satheezmbs (talk • contribs) 10:17, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Relationship to the world

For the ones interested in using an icon for the relationship between Algeria and the world at large I would like to contribute with an image should it be needed. Thanks--Camilo Sanchez (talk) 05:48, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

File:Coat of arms of planet earth algeria.svg

Coat of arms of Planet Earth with the nae of Algeria

Most Algerians consider themselves Arabs

Why is there no mention of Arabs in the Demographics section.

Who ever wrote it should be ashamed of themselves for being so blatantly biased.

Writing what you wish does not mean it will ever happen.

Shame on you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.229.205.120 (talk) 01:55, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

It's not a question of bias, but of simple omission. I've added a stat from the child article. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:01, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for seeming to be harsh in my comments but I have always known that the overwhelming majority of Algerians to be proud of their combined Arab and Berber heritage, yes both Arab and Berber and not Berber alone. Reading the Demographics section there was not one mention of the Arab aspect of Algeria. This to me appears intentional. There is, without a doubt, a massive bias towards Arabs on Wikipedia articles related to ethnicity, history, religion, etc. The Article about Algeria feeds into this phenomenon. Just as an interesting side note, even when listening to Algerian music, there are countless songs where the singer highlights his/her pride in their Arab origin. Just listen to Cheb Khaled's music! Arabs also have a deep fondness for Algeria and consider it as a role model for sacrafice against foreign occupation and colonialism. I know for certian that Arabs everywhere will cheer for their sole representitive in the world cup.

The demographics section was inaccurate because of back and forth POV pushing and exaggerations, just before the protection of the article on an arbitrary version (due to massive vandalism after the world-cup match, which made meaningful edits impossible), so nothing really intentional here: just some unreverted vandalism.

It still seems though that the languages subsection does not reflect the cited sources correctly. Antipastor (talk) 10:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I changed it now to what is stated in the reference (in french): there were gross exaggerations of both Arabic and Berber dialects percentages. However, it could be helpful to corroborate the data with more sources. Antipastor (talk) 10:40, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

French rule -- Denoeux

Between 1830 and 1847 50,000 French people emigrated to Algeria,[31] but the conquest was slow because of intense resistance from such people as Emir Abdelkader, Ahmed Bey and Fatma N'Soumer. Indeed, the conquest was not technically complete until the early 1900s when the last Tuareg were conquered by General Guilain P. Denoeux. -- This is wrong.

Guilain Denoeux is a professor at Colby College who teaches Middle eastern politics and not a French general.

Removed. Antipastor (talk) 16:29, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Genocide

The French invaded Algiers in 1830. The conquest of Algeria by the French was long and particularly violent, and it resulted in the disappearance of about a third of the Algerian population. France was responsible for the extermination of 1.5 million Algerians. According to Olivier Le Cour Grandmaison, the French pursued a policy of extermination against the Algerians.

1.5 million Algerians died during the Algerian War of Independence. Genocide which was committed by the French.

Algerians argue that the massacres should be named as genocide and France must apologise to the Algerians[1] [2] However the French do not accept the claims. Algeria's President Abdelaziz Bouteflika says that French colonization of his country Algeria was a form of genocide link title. In memoirs, some French officers have described torture of Algerians during the war. Edouard Sablier, for instance, one of the soldiers who took part in the repression, later described the situation: “Everywhere in the towns there were camps surrounded by barbed wire containing hundreds of suspects who had been arrested… Often, when we set out to inspect an isolated hamlet in the mountains, I heard people say, ‘We should punish them by taking away their crops’.” [3] A paper called Ohé Partisans, published by the French Trotskyists, described Sétif as an “Algerian Oradour”. Oradour was a French town where the Nazi occupiers had murdered over 600 people, including children. [4]

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.208.180.240 (talk) 19:28, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

stop Vandalism

Egyptian from Cairo sabotage the content of Algerian pages here , see [[4]]Please...?. ترجمان05 (talk)

Islamists loot and burn protestant church in Algeria

This Israeli site: [JP] writes:"Islamists loot and burn protestant church in Algeria".Agre22 (talk) 23:03, 11 January 2010 (UTC)agre22

Languages

Algeria is a trilingual country - we speak Arabic, Berber (Tamazight), and French. However, the latter two are rather underrepresented on the page. Should French not be mentioned as a "Second Language" on the page, as it is on the Tunisia entry ? Or the name of the country be listed in the body text of the page in Algerian (colloquial) Arabic and French ? Arabic is spoken by well over ninety-five percent of all Algerians, French is spoken by nearly two-thirds of the country, according to the OIF, and Tamazight is spoken by a significant population, as well. Why not, then, recognize all three as equally valuable, historically, culturally, and practically ?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.169.62.105 (talk) 05:48, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a tendency to follow the countries official policies. Thus you can see "English" in Madagascar's infofox but not in Sweden's (the fact that most Swedes know English and that most Malagasies don't, is apparently irrelevant), similarly Madagascar is shown on the map of the English-speaking world but Sweden is not. The same goes for Algeria, where French is the second language, but the government's attitude towards it is schizophrenic because on one hand it detests the French language, and on the other they continue to use it. Aaker (talk) 23:41, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I have algerian origines and I don't know why you put english as part of the spoken languages, it's ridiculous ! And the french language is largely used in secondary school, they do not hate french language ! Please remove emglish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.137.171.31 (talk) 17:18, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Presidential Terms

I am going to have a go at re-writing the first two sentences of the Poitics section as at the moment they are a bit confusing Tigerboy1966 (talk) 11:50, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistent spelling: Bugia/Bujia

Under Spanish Enclaved, the first paragraph says "Bugia" and the second "Bujia".

Pre-History

"Author Terrence McKenna has hypothesised Algeria as the source of the myth of the Garden of Eden and the birth of humanity. Before the warming brought on by the Holocene Climatic Optimum around 7,000 years ago, the region contained vast grasslands which, along with the representations of cattle in the Tassili Plateau art, suggests the existence of early forms of pastoral agriculture. This would seem to be a logical precursor to the crop-based agriculture that developed in the Middle East in the agricultural revolution thousands of years later.

The ancient paintings are also a clear indication of a form of shamanism or religion based on the use of psychedelic mushrooms. This is another reason why the region was proposed by McKenna as the cradle of culture and civilization, as the visions induced by these mushrooms give a powerful impulse towards art, painting and the sense of contact with the supernatural that is the basis of religious belief. McKenna, T. (1992). Food of the Gods, The Search for the Original Tree of Knowledge: A Radical History of Plants, Drugs and Human Evolution. Bantam Books. p. 70. "

I added the following earlier today and it was removed arbitrarily by an editor who was not signed it, with no reason given whatsoever. Perhaps if this addition seems too definitive it could be altered. No-one, not even Terrence McKenna himself, claims that his theories are definitely true, but at the same time given the archaeological evidence they are certainly plausible. I believe my addition is thought-provoking and that there is no reason to leave it out.

I'd have to do some investigating but the Arabs arrived in Algeria later than 642...about 20 years later..

"Author Terrence McKenna has hypothesised Algeria as the source of the myth of the Garden of Eden and the birth of humanity."... "This is another reason why the region was proposed by McKenna as the cradle of culture and civilization"

I don't think the piece of text that you added is clear on what it proposes. Does it mean that the myth of "paradise" (as told in the bible/quran/whatever) originated in ancient algeria, or does the cited author propose that civilization or/and the human race itself originated in ancient algeria? Either of these theories must be regarded as very controversial and the whole question of where these phenomena arose is extremely strange because they most likely originate in various palces independently. There is actually considerable consensus on where the first instances of "civilization" are to be located (Egypt, Mesopotamia). Regardless of that isn't this rather speculative material more apropriate for the separate article on Algeria's history? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.234.185.68 (talk) 14:54, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

[I edited the first comment above to remove the <ref> tags and show the citation.] Terence McKenna's theories are at least controversial; at best far out of the scientific mainstream. I don't think he's in any way a reliable source. His idea about the Garden of Eden might be acceptable if it's identified as very speculative. The part about the mushrooms can (in my opinion) only be wishful thinking on the part of a long-time apologist, and should be removed from the article. -- BPMullins | Talk 16:30, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

This section was removed from the article due to being speculative and unhistorical. Terrence McKenna is not a historian and his word should not be taken as such. I have had to remove this from the article over eight times now, and it keeps getting added back in. While I appreciate that someone out there clearly has a love for Terrence McKenna, and while I will say that some of his theories are interesting, they are just that. Theories. He is making an unfounded theory about the "Garden of Eden" which may or may not have existed and as such it has no place in the history of Algeria. If you absolutely must discuss this, you may do so on Terrence McKenna's page, or the Garden of Eden page. This is not the place for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.158.142.187 (talk) 15:27, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

literacy plummeted,[36] while land development uprooted much of the population.

You will need to find another source. The source doesn't state that literacy plummeted. It states that the use of advanced Arabic plummeted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.234.222.35 (talk) 10:14, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

IP 68.147.201.79 a TROLL

please someone block him/her. keeps changing the GDP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.227.197.191 (talk) 00:39, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Please edit reference #44

Please edit the reference number 44 from: "http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy_Index_2010_web.pd" to "http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy_Index_2010_web.pdf". I can't edit because the article is blocked. --KJEFRNNF (talk) 02:51, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

History section a bit long?

Doesn't the history section seem a bit long for a country's main article? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 04:56, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Ottoman History

I was reading over the article just now and the section on "Ottoman rule" seems to be primarily about the Barbary Corsairs and not the overall history of Algeria under Ottoman rule. Some of the text is also redundant (most of the paragraph regarding the Barbarossa brothers). I was wondering if the information about the Barbary Corsairs should either be deleted or put under a new heading? Cheywoodward2 (talk) 22:33, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Origin of the name

The fact that "Jazair" means "the islands" in Arabic isn't a plausible etymology, as there are no islands there. The name of the country comes from the city of Algiers which is called natively "Dzayr"; Ziri ibn Manad founded the city and that name is likely derived from his name. Then it was Arabized when reported in Arabic. Does anyone have more info on this? Tachfin (talk) 09:30, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

I understand that there were islands offshore Algiers, but there was a landfill in the past few centuries.

Enc. of Islam II "Djazair"

"The Arabs applied the name of the islets to the town, which was founded in the 4th/10th century on the mainland opposite them."

Deriving the name from the Zirids is folk etymology. I prefer that this be indicated.

Mazghanna was not spelled correctly in Classical Arabic. I corrected it, according to Enc. of Islam II and Arabic Wikipedia.

Also I would like to see the Berber name spelled out in Tifinagh Ybgursey (talk) 09:22, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

You're right this seems to be nothing more than a folk etymology. The name is spelled in Tifinagh in an end note since there has been opposition to include it in the main text. Tachfin (talk) 06:01, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Algeria's Arab Ethnicity

Algeria's ethnic groups is well known to it's inhabitants and to historians. The bulk and overwhelming majority of it's inhabitants are of Arab origin. Let's be mature and stop ignoring stark reality here folks. Thank you. (~Canadian2000)

What matters here is that information is supported by reliable sources, which is the case.

Wikipedia is not a place to right great wrongs; that is we only add material that has been published in reliable sources, it is not our job to decide on what is "reality".

In addition to The World Factbook, I've found a list of other reliable sources that directly support what you've been trying to delete. There is no justification in Wikipedia to remove reliably-cited verifiable material:

1. 'Historical records of the Arab conquest, however, suggest that its demographic impact must have been limited (McEvedy 1980). In addition, genetic evidence shows that E3b2 is rare in the Middle East (Semino et al. 2004), making the Arabs an unlikely source for this frequent North African lineage' [5], PubMed, United States National Library of Medicine
2. 'The overwhelming majority of the population is Berber but only about 20% actually identify themselves as Berber pp21, Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East: L to Z (2009)
3. 'Even today it is estimated that the majority of the Algerian and Moroccan population is of Berber origin' pp263, Case studies on human rights and fundamental freedoms: a world survey, Volume 1
4. 'In reality almost all Algerians are Berber in origin' pp10, The Report: Algeria 2008
5. 'almost all Algerians are Berber in origin' pp9, The Report: Algeria 2011

Furthermore, respectable historians support this view (Ibn Khaldun, Gabriel Camps, Charles-André Julien) Tachfin (talk) 09:25, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Omitted province in the picture

In the Provinces and districts section, the picture representing each province is missing #43 (Mila). Can someone please edit the picture?Terrorist96 (talk) 03:47, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Can you be more clear about the missing ones please? --Dzlinker (talk) 20:30, 14 February 2012 (UTC)