Talk:American English

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A user named Raytelford recently changed all references regarding British English to simply English. This seems to imply that American English is a separate language all together from what this user perceives to be "true" English. I restored the article with references to British English. 98.221.124.80 (talk) 21:57, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

The terms being used to describe English are in fact wrong. English is a language that developed in and around the British Isles, and should always be known as English. Other countries have decided to adopt the English language and use it as its own. If however a county wants to change the name English to suit its self then it must be completely entitled to do so, such as “American English”. In American English words and meanings differ very much and many times cause much confusion. Regarding the description of original English being called “British English” there is no such language. To try and change the language called “English” to another name is wrong and no one has the right to do so. Today although most English and Americans do understand each other, it is a different language as others have changed certain words away from the original meanings. The difference between English and American English is today also confusing, as many other countries take up learning English as a second language. So it is only correct that the word “British” (in the case of British English) should be removed from this article. It should only say “English” thus referring to original English. --Raytelford (talk) 11:02, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

That's merely your opinion, and a quite badly infomed and incorrect one at that. At least you didn't make unilateral changes to the article like you did before. - BilCat (talk) 18:28, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Raytelford. There is no such thing as "British English". American English is a derivative of the English spoken in all other countries. America was a new nation comprised of immigrants from all over who are responsible for the speech differences. There are also some statistical errors... Americans do not comprise two thirds of the English speaking population. In fact it's about 55% but that of course depends on how you define your selection, for example not all Americans speak English and for a lot of Americans English is not their first language. If Americans are attempting to claim that their spelling is more correct, then please be reminded that they are only one of the countries in world where English is first language and its widely spoken everywhere else. For example in Turkey new web sites are more often than not published in English. Wallumbase (talk) 07:57, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

citation creep?

seriously, "English is considered the de facto, "in practice but not necessarily ordained by law", language of the United States because of its widespread use" requires a citation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psm (talk • contribs) 22:45, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

AAVE mention on map

The map on the left near the top of the page mentions AAVE as being spoken by Black people. Should this be changed to African Americans? I not aware of any non African-American black people who speak it. --69.248.225.198 (talk) 21:04, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Velar shift of t and d

American English pronounces education and opportunity with velar 'd' and 't' as opposed to palatized 'j' and 'ch' like the rest of the English speaking world. Should add this to phonology —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.221.7 (talk) 07:26, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

pavement?

pavement is not American English. who ever put that it isn't common in Britain is clearly an idiot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.148.141 (talk) 14:15, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

agreed. They got it wrong. I'm British and everyone I know says pavement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.9.232 (talk) 19:11, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I am a different idiot, not the person who contributed the word "pavement". I have not had so much direct contact with the British, but this is a usage difference I have often noted in comparing American English with Hong Kong English. In America, the word may refer to any hard paved surface, but usually indicates a paved street for motor vehicles. In Hong Kong, I have seen the word applied only in reference to a sidewalk. The Hong Kong primary school books have all kinds of advice that would not play well in America. E.g., "We should always walk on the pavement." That one is a distant second to my favorite, "We can wash our hands in the public toilet." Geometricks (talk) 06:03, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

To start name calling i.e. Idiot, lowers the standard of Wikipedia and is not necessary to make a point. However the word “Pavement” is used 99% of the time to describe a walkway at the side of the road in the UK. --Raytelford (talk) 13:14, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

/ɹɪzum/ ?

I'm a native speaker of American English, and I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone pronounce "resume" with the final "e" silent, as indicated in the "dropping of /j/" portion of the Phonology section. Unless some very substantial citations to the contrary can be produced, I think this should be changed.

67.252.132.138 (talk) 07:59, 30 September 2010 (UTC)RH, 9-30-10

The pronunciation indicated in the article (re-ZOOM) is that of the verb "to resume" – you seem to be thinking of the noun "resumé" (sometimes spelled without the accent) as in "job application/curriculum vitae", which is RE-zoo-may and does indeed not have a silent e. Maybe someone could make this a bit clearer in the article? 217.226.20.93 (talk) 22:07, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Different from and plural after collective nouns

I have removed the reference to 'different from', as it was incorrect in suggesting that this is not used in British English. It is in fact the standard form there. I have also weakened the reference to 'the team are...', etc., as this usage is not universal in British English. (In fact the singular is used when the group is seen as one unit, e.g. 'The government is unpopular', but plural when seen as a group of individuals, e.g. 'The government are discussing a reform'). APW (talk) 08:14, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

numerous European languages

The introduction of the article has a paragraph with the sentence

"The first wave of English-speaking settlers arrived in North America in the 17th century. During [the 17th century], there were also speakers of numerous Native American languages, Spanish, French, Dutch, German, Norwegian, Swedish, Scots, Welsh, Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Finnish, Russian (in Alaska), and numerous African languages (mostly from the western coast of Africa)."

I'm trying to concoct a justification wherein this enumeration of languages isn't horribly Eurocentric. I mean, if we picked out just Spanish, French, Dutch, and German for special mention, I could agree that those languages have special roles in the linguistic developments of at least some regions of North America. But we went out of our way to exhaustively list all the European languages spoken in North America in the 17th century, no matter how small the immigrant community nor how little its impact on North American linguistic history. I mean Finnish? Russian? Scots? How are those more noteworthy or relevant than, say, Wolof? Or Navajo?

Obviously we can't list every language spoken in North America in the 17th century. They probably number in the thousands. So what's our plan? List every single European language, no matter how minor, and not a single Native American or African language?

I propose the sentence be changed to one of these alternatives:

"there were also speakers of numerous Native American languages, numerous European languages, and numerous western African languages, among other."

or else

"there were also speakers of numerous Native American languages, including Navajo, Algonquian, Cherokee, Nahuatl, Sioux; numerous European languages, including Spanish, French, Dutch, and German; and numerous western African languages, including Wolof, Mandinka, and Yoruba."

I am open to alternative proposals for determining criteria for listing other languages. But I would ask that these criteria be applied equally to non-European languages.

Alternatively, we could lose the paragraph altogether. I'm not sure how much value it adds to the article.

-lethe ^{talk +} 05:07, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

You're right. Finnish?????

The sentence is overblown and not really linked to anything that precedes it. I propose:

"The first wave of English-speaking settlers arrived in North America in the 17th century. American English has since been influenced by the languages of the Native American population, the languages of European and non-European colonists, immigrants and neighbors, and the languages of slaves from West Africa."

What do you think? Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 11:42, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Dominus. Thank you for replying. I very much like your proposed change. Only I'm a little nervous about asserting that American English was influenced by all these languages, without supporting that assertion in the text of the article. Though of course it is obvious to me that AE does carry influence from many languages of North America, Europe, and Africa. -lethe ^{talk +} 00:16, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Isn't it supported by the section "Creation of an American lexicon"? Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 06:34, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Oops, you're right. Maybe I should finish reading the whole article before I start claiming that something isn't supported by the article text, huh? So yeah, you're right, it's there (though sadly no discussion of african influences). I support replacing the text with your proposed version. -lethe ^{talk +} 23:48, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Will do. And I'll see if I can add anything about African contribution. Surprised it's not there. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 23:58, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Sexism/sexist language

The topic has not been covered. --Phleer, Yeoman Editor (talk) 00:46, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Gotten

The article claims that:

Gotten (past participle of get) is often considered to be an Americanism, although there are some areas of Britain, such as Lancashire and North-eastern England, that still continue to use it.

I am certain that is wrong. I don't know about North-eastern England, but I was born, educated and have worked, lived and travelled in Lancashire for almost 50 years without seeing or hearing "gotten" used by any of its residents - including a wide variety of dialect speakers and writers.

82.69.29.198 (talk) 15:54, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

"He has gotten used to his environment" would be correct in Australia. Wallumbase (talk) 08:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC)