Talk:American and British English differences

American and British English differences : Divergence : Other ambiguity (complex cases)

... word fanny is a slang word for vulva in BrE but means buttocks in AmE – the AmE phrase fanny pack is bum bag in BrE.

... word fanny is a slang word for vulva in BrE but means buttocks in AmE – the AmE phrase fanny pack is bum bag in BrE. Other embarrassing terms sometimes met in a business environment are "Rubber", a slang word for contraceptive-sheath in AmE but means "pencil-eraser" in BrE, and "momentarily", which means "IN just a moment - very soon" in AmE, but "FOR a moment - briefly" in BrE.

90.202.129.146 (talk) 10:20, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Disagree (other than with "fanny"). "Rubber" can be used as a word for a condom, but usually it's just rubber (like a rubber band, rubber eraser, or rubber ball). "Momentarily" can be used either way-- "I'll be with you momentarily," and "he paused momentarily." Venku Tur'Mukan (talk) 00:34, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Football language or culture

"The word "football" in BrE refers to Association football, also known as soccer. In AmE, "football" means American football (although "soccer", a contraction of "association (football)", the standard AmE term, is also of British origin, derived from the formalization of different codes of football in the 19th century, and was a fairly unremarkable usage (possibly marked for class) in BrE until relatively recently; it has latterly become falsely perceived as an intrusive Americanism)."

I just wanted to query this passage and see what others thought. I wouldn't really consider this a difference between AmE and BrE, it is more a difference in the cultures of the United States and Britain. I'd expect that the use of AmE and BrE extended beyond those two countries also. Football tends to be the name given to whichever is the most dominant football code in a country or area, but it isn't used exclusively. LunarLander // talk // 18:29, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps the real difference is that "soccer" is a slang term in BrE, as is "rugger" to mean Rugby football. Laurec (talk) 16:45, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Parentheses/brackets

BrE used to follow what here is documented AmE usage. Personally, I can remember being taught this in the 1960s; to refer to parentheses as brackets was considered ill-educated and would certainly not have escaped my English teacher! In Gilbert & Sullivan's "The Gondoliers" the song "Take a Pair of Sparkling Eyes" contains the line "Take a tender little hand ... Press it, press it, in parenthesis" [1]. The allusion is to the singer (Marco) pressing his beloved's hands between his, making the shape of parenthesis. I would suggest that common understanding if not plebeian usage in 19thC London therefore followed AmE. It might also be relevant that in music the sign linking the two staves of keyboard scores are linked by a brace. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:02, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

American here-- As far as I know, typically parentheses = (), brackets=[]... Brackets/Parentheses gives good information on that subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Venku Tur'Mukan (talk • contribs) 00:46, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Numbers: citation needed

"There is also a historical difference between billions, trillions and so forth. Americans use billion to mean one thousand million (1,000,000,000), whereas in the UK, until the latter part of the 20th century, it was used to mean one million million (1,000,000,000,000).[citation needed]" There's a good source of citation to be found here: http://oxforddictionaries.com/page/howmanybillion . Now, I don't have a clue about Wiki formatting syntax, and I don't have the time to learn it on the fly now (I've come here more or less by accident via an online research). Could somebody please insert this citation into the text? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.134.73.98 (talk) 15:31, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Prepositions after direct objects

I'm American, and I've noticed this when watching British TV. I'd like to know what the rules are, and if the difference is real I think it would be a good addition to the article. I've noticed that in British English prepositions following direct objects are sometimes omitted when they would be present in American English. For example, I might hear BrE "Bob prevented Stacy running into the street." Whereas in AmE it would be "Bob prevented Stacy from running into the street." Introw (talk) 01:11, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm British and "Bob prevented Stacy running into the street" just sound wrong to me. Is it a regional or dialect usage? -- Q Chris (talk) 06:27, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm also British and it doesn't sound at all wrong to me. My experience of BritEng is that either could be used, equally. Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:50, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Yet another Brit! On balance I would prefer the fuller form, but would not be surprised to hear the shorter form in spoken language. I would suggest, however, that omitting the "from" would be poor written style. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 07:55, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm American and I think I've heard or read the latter form, though it's not common. Mostly it's done that way when people don't know how to speak properly. Like Martin of Sheffield said, it would probably be used primarily in conversational or informal language. Venku Tur'Mukan (talk) 00:38, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant that the sentence without "from" is less common. Venku Tur'Mukan (talk) 00:47, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Use of tenses

There is an error in that part. The Americans using preterit (past simple) instead of present perfect when referring to events set in the present is a grammar mistake, not an acceptable use specific to a regional dialect, and it should be listed as such. The example used 'I have already eaten / I already ate' is particularly badly chosen, as 'I already ate' is not acceptable in English (the language, regardless of dialects).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.219.150.142 (talk • contribs) 23:11, 25 October 2011‎

Quotes and punctuation

This article is also wrong. Whether you include the punctuation mark in the quote or not simply depends on whether or not the punctuation is part of the quote, it does not have anything to do with dialects.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.219.150.142 (talk • contribs) 23:11, 25 October 2011‎

"I couldn't care less"

The article says 'Both BrE and AmE use the expression "I couldn't care less" to mean the speaker does not care at all.'

But, we very often hear Americans using "I could care less" when they really mean "I couldn't care less". The former, which is heard often (e.g. on US TV and films) is logically incorrect, and confusing to British ears, so possibly worth mentioning?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.44.19.62 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 7 November 2011‎

Increasing confusion

I added ", but [RP] is only spoken by about two percent of the United Kingdom's population (with citation)".

Nigelj please explain the comment "Increasing confusion between dialect and accent. sorry my mobile phone is not conducive to a bet... " for this reversal -- PBS (talk) 21:15, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

The rest of that summary was meant to say, "Sorry, my mobile phone is not conducive to a better edit. The new ref is good." I'm going to have another look now, and try to do better. --Nigelj (talk) 21:51, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I've had a go at basing the paragraph (well, I combined two paras too) in this edit. Most of this article is about word-use and phraseology, not accent. A lot of the new British Library ref (the old Independent one is a dead link, so I have no idea what it used to say) is about how British people speak however they like depending on their background and the situation. The Queen speaks in an archaic form of RP, most people can lapse into regional dialects when with their family but become quite 'standard' in a job interview. Many very educated people will become quite 'street' with mates in a pub. These are the sort of points that I think make BrE interesting at this level of overview. --Nigelj (talk) 22:51, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

The Indy has re-arranged its old articles and they are not always available, but many of them are also syndicated. In this case the article is still available as

• Kirby, Terry. "Are regional dialects dying out, and should we care if they are?". Belfast Telegraph. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/are-regional-dialects-dying-out-and-should-we-care-if-they-are-13428248.html. Retrieved 27 December 2011. 

You have not explained why you reverted the edit I made yesterday. I am not going to revert your edit in its entirety but am going to put back in the %age, and I am going to remove the last sentence as I think it involves OR and is not supported by the source. I think your justification of it on this page is a personal POV. For example one could equally argue that as only 2% of the population speak RP those that do are more likely to adjust their accent to that of the interviewer (who is far more likely to speak with a non RP than with). Either way it is speculative. -- PBS (talk) 02:42, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

This sentence "It is referred to colloquially as "BBC English", "Oxford English" and "the Queen's English", although none of these actually use or require it exclusively." is clumsy as the Queen uses it exclusively, and Oxford English is another term for RP (it does not mean the accent used by the people who live in the industrial suburbs of Oxford), it only applies to the BBC who have for at least 30 years have put people in front of the microphone who speak with a moderately strong regional accent.

Now that I have found a copy of the original source. I think the original wording with the 2% RP addition I added is better than the current wording. -- PBS (talk) 02:59, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

My point is, and always has been that this paragraph in the WP:LEDE, which is meant to summarise the article, was and now again is mostly about the accent known as RP. This is not an article about regional or national accents. However, you seem very keen on that, and I do not have the enthusiasm to argue. As that may, I have corrected the version you left: I had tried to combine two minor points about RP into one sentence - (a) it is used by 2% of the UK population, (b) most of them English people. The article is about phrases and word-choices. Regarding the colloquial names for RP, please see the ref you cited, "The Queen, for instance, speaks an almost unique form of English, while the English we hear at Oxford University or on the BBC is no longer restricted to one type of accent." Whatever. --Nigelj (talk) 21:11, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Accusing me of OR is a bit more serious, as that is against core WP policies. There was no OR in the sentence you have struck - all of it is based on points made in the source you cited. There was editorial selectivity - I chose point made in the ref about word use, "colloquialisms and regional features", as that is what this article is about. --Nigelj (talk) 21:19, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

U.S children count; in the UK they number

I tried to find a source for this, but failed. Of a random sample of fifty usages from the British National Corpus, there were no examples at all for using number as a verb, although of course the OED includes this sense. Deleted. --Old Moonraker (talk) 22:15, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Of course there is no source - the assertion made in the [now revoked] edit is abject nonsense. JohnArmagh (talk) 22:23, 27 December 2011 (UTC)