Talk:Anti-Americanism

Special note: To avoid an external link farm, the numerous articles posted on the subject have been moved to Talk:Anti-Americanism/External link

Anti-American means nothing and everything.

Any criticism of the United States is anti-american? If a concept includes everything is it a concept? What is not anti-american? The culture section and canadian section are ridiculous. There has to be something connecting a critical statement about the United States to "anti-americanism" other than the word "anti-american." This whole article should be erased and transferred to the fiction section. `` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Canuckistani (talk • contribs) 20:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-ethnic_and_anti-national_terms If this article has to go, all the others has to follow. Which means : the article will stay.--Red-fox.lv (talk) 08:05, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

POV tags

As there is no discussion section that explains what is POV about the article and how to repair it, I will remove the tags. TFD (talk) 22:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Thier old.Slatersteven (talk) 22:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm adding it back. You said as a reply to a comment below that we need to take the concept as a form of prejudice a priori. But the term is contentious, taken by some US supporters to mean "irrational and incorrect hostility" and by other critics as "the expression of grievances against US action". Today, the latter explains it as an expression against US imperialism, the former either negates that imperialism or presents it as desirable. The article mustn't define a phenomenon when sources are providing multiple interpretations: The different interpretations from appropriate sources need to be addressed instead. That is neutrality. The initial or general sections seem better, but it gets less neutral with the regional parts and the extensive part on the Arab and Persian world, for example, with its emphasis on Qutb (which is used to introduce al-Qaeda), religious motivation, abstract conceptions, and not making distinctions or relations between pre-modern incarnations and current international affairs makes a move (whether intended or not) to minimize or sideline more material, political, massive and historical causes for "anti-American" movements or their variety, using these side notes to explain "excuses". The term itself is something mainly used in the US, but it can't be disassociated from the actions and initiatives that give rise to it outside (or inside) it. On that note, some accounts on the active parts of the creation of the term need be addressed. Who the proponents of using the term are and why they may be motivated to group others as "anti-American", which itself tends to be derisive. There's also the unsigned comment below, plus many other comments in the 28 pages of history. Death to one-page memory! Who is like God? (talk) 09:04, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Criticism of the United States

Is it appropriate to redirect Criticism of the United States here?Smallman12q (talk) 13:41, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm. Looks like that is indeed the current re-direct. My first thought is that this is inappropriate, in so far as it equates criticism of the US with anti-Americanism. Anti-Americans are certainly a subset of those critical of the US, but obviously a belief that certain policies or aspects of the US are foolish/misguided/whatever and ought to be rectified can co-exist with a broad affinity for the US. --CAVincent (talk) 07:09, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

What the subset constitutes and when to apply it is subject to interpretation. So where does the line go? Must critics also send blessings to the US or else be damned as biased or too extreme? If anything, "anti-Americanism" as a term is the US (or US ally) perspective on criticisms of the US and its policies, especially when it doesn't want to hear them. But as a phenomenon or object to study it refers to the criticism. Supposedly, for a stance to be acceptable it must be justified. That leaves the question whether an "irrational" stance may be justified by the circumstances, but that's something political and not for us editors to determine. In a term there are two things at least, those who emit it and its object. It gets more complicated when the object has a voice, of course. The cleanest solution to POV and interpretation issues here may be to use a more neutral title and to include "anti-Americanism" there as the way the US (or its "establishment") sees criticism against it. And this is not a dictionary, so we shouldn't be defining "anti-American" (creating an article around the term itself) except in the process of dealing with a phenomenon described in the topic. Who is like God? (talk) 09:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

As an American, I certainly acknowledge a gaping chasm of difference between Anti-Americanism and criticism of the US. Any -ism implies something that is part of a person's ideology, as in a defining characteristic of the individual's beliefs... if you could describe an individual as Anti-American then they are. But you can't describe everyone with a criticism of the US as Anti-American. For example you could describe Hugo Chavez as a proponent of Anti-Americanism, but Nicolas Sarkozy has criticized US policy before but could not credibly be referred to as a proponent of Anti-Americanism. --Cabazap (talk) 02:26, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I would not call Chavez "Anti-American". What has he said which would qualify him as "Anti-American"? All of his critical statements are obviously directed at the US government's behavior and actions (particularly actions of GW Bush administration). I have never heard him once insult American people. Poyani (talk) 22:05, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

The lead sentence of the article reads, "The term Anti-Americanism, or Anti-American Sentiment, refers to broad opposition or hostility to the people, policies, culture or government of the United States."

In the Latin America section, the article says, "One of the most vocal of these leaders has been Hugo Chávez of Venezuela, who is known for his strong opposition towards the American government, particularly the administration of George W. Bush, driving him to vilify the latter in many ways, including referring to him as "el diablo" (the devil) before the opening of the United Nations General Assembly in 2006.[119] He has clearly stated his intent to use Venezuela's oil resources as a card 'against the toughest country in the world, the United States.'". Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 03:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Since the sources do not refer to anti-Americanism, I will remove them (Morales too). TFD (talk) 05:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Anti-westernism or third-worldism as its known should be included in this article

. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dunnbrian9 (talk • contribs) 03:09, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Why exactly? --Cabazap (talk) 02:27, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

It seems like a logical point. Negative attitudes towards US policy can be directly related to or caused by similar negative attitudes towards more global attitudes towards developed nations, either as a truly 'anti' position or merely as a cricital attitude.--Senor Freebie (talk) 00:15, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Neutrality?

This article seems to put all criticism and critics of the US in a negative sense. Also, for several critics (and reasonable arguments) against an injustices done by Americans, there exists another unrelated reason justifying the action, or that tries to direct the anti-American sentiment to another source. For example, in the Japan section

"The ongoing U.S. military presence in Okinawa remains a contentious issue in Japan." and "objections to the behavior and presence of American military personnel are sometimes reported as anti-Americanism, such as the 1995 Okinawan rape incident." these lines are followed by "While protests have arisen over specific incidents, they are often reflective of deeper historical resentments."

A strong reaction to a rape in 1995 does not necessarily constitute a reaction due to pent-up feelings of discrimination and resentment against Americans. However, by allowing such phrasing to be juxtaposed, one is led to believe that the Americans have been dealt a great injustice over the fact that the Japanese are unable to reconcile historic grievances with current events.

The section "Middle East and North Africa" is also of questionable neutrality, often portraying the US as a innocent bystander who is taking an onslaught of "baseless" criticism from one-dimensional people and nations bent on the complete destruction of everything that is remotely American. Nearly all sources of anti-American sentiment listed are attributed to bigotry, racism, ignorance, ungratefulness, or religious fundamentalism; in effect, this gives off the message that only such peoples are anti-American, even though there are many less negative causes for anti-American sentiment in nations (for example, Native Americans who were driven off their land and almost into extinction by American expansionism).In all cases, America is the victim of baseless criticism that is petty and somewhat laughable.

Although the facts of this articles are not being debated, the overall tone and bias most certainly are a point of contention. In order to balance this article in terms of neutrality and tone, a section devoted to causes of anti-Americanism should be created, and well-placed so readers will have a reasonable chance of acquiring objective, well-rounded information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.15.222.6 (talk) 22:38, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Anti-Americanism goes beyond dislike of American actions or culture. TFD (talk) 01:39, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

This should be about what people hyave called anti-americanism. As such why they belive that may be of relevance, but not why poeple dislike america.Slatersteven (talk) 10:56, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

As I understand the lead section, this article is about broad opposition or hostility to the people, policies, culture or government of the United States. Is it being alleged that this does not accurately describe some article content (what content?). Is it being suggested that this be changed (to what?). Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:26, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

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Among many a contentious statement

"Anti-Americanism has risen in Pakistan as a result of U.S. drone attacks on the country introduced by George W. Bush and continued by Barack Obama.[68][69] In a poll surveying opinions towards the United States, Pakistan scored as the most anti-American nation, jointly alongside Serbia"

The poll, if I'm reading the article and its sources correctly did NOT ask people how anti-American they were, but instead whether they thought the USA had a positive or negative affect on the world. Countries holding strongly negative opinions in this regard may have alternative local perspectives due to cultural reasons, historical grievances or differences in education. They may in fact have a more valid attitude towards the overall influence of the USA or they may have a biased attitude but none of this constitutes outright anti-americanism and none of it is actually confirmable from a poll that doesn't ask the question outright. I would suggest replacing 'anti-americanism' in both of these instances with 'negative opinions towards US influence' and perhaps even a strong disclaimer that this does not constitute anti-americanism.--Senor Freebie (talk) 00:22, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

"In Greece At the demonstration commemorating the 17th of November Uprising there is a march towards the US embassy to emphasize the US backing of the Greek military junta of 1967–1974 attended by thousands of people each year."

Sorry but this has to be a joke. I mean, it comes right off the heels of a statement about some 8-10 undescribed attacks against undescribed American companies in Europe (what kind of companies, why were they attacked, etc.?) but this is a clear cut case of a real historical grievance / remembrance of one and has no bearing on even the attitudes of the individuals who even partake in the march. Maybe their modern attitude is 'American Foreign policy was bad back then. We're glad the country was positive enough to change so we're going to go to the embassy and quietly remember the negative past.' But what is more important here is that this is just as valid an assumption as the idea that this demonstrates a negative attitude towards the USA.--Senor Freebie (talk) 00:31, 29 November 2011 (UTC)