Talk:Australia

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Australia Royal National Anthem

I'm trying to add it, but there was an issue: |royal_anthem =

"God Save the Queen

Twillisjr (talk) 20:10, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

'God Save the Queen' has not been Australia's national anthem since 1984, when it was replaced by Advance Australia Fair, after a plebiscite to choose the National Song. Myk (talk) 06:00, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Unbeknownst to most Australians, it is indeed still the "royal anthem", used in the presence of the monarch when they come to visit (although this tradition may have fallen out of favour). However this has been discussed several times before and it was resolved each time not to put it on the information bar on the right hand side as "Advance Australia Fair" is the only widely known (or indeed, for the vast majority of Australians, the only known) anthem which is used in all situations except for Royal visits (not clear if god save the queen is still even used for these). Thus I would request you not to revisit the issue and attempt to add it again. Saruman-the-white (talk) 12:15, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

aboriginal archaeological history

This page needs updating as the general archaeological evidence for aboriginal habitation goes back at least 66,000 years and the possibilty of a further 10-20,000 yrs has support. Recent genetic research shows the aboriginal types (gracile/robustus), to have separated from the "african root" of humanity before its spread to the european/asian continent. There was a claim of human "rock pitting"/art in the Kimberley in the 1990's of 110,000-120,000 yrs ago, but this claim has been dismissed as being "too" old to be acceptable. By now - 2012, newer researh is supporting these claims and is fairly easy to track down.

This subject should be of major significance globally as the Aboriginal culture is by far the oldest continual culture known.

The deplorable treatment by non-indigenous "Australians" and especially the Government should be taken up by the United Nations as a situation of utmost importance and pressure brought to bear on said government to finally get real about this cultural genocide.

How the traditional owners of this land have not to any great degree retaliated as almost all other cultures have done worldwide under similar circumstances, is beyond me. I can only guess that they are so demoralized by their repression, they find it hard to envisage any action on their part as being successful. With newer generations of non-indigenous people populating this country that incorporate less racist attitudes, and further indigenous education, perhaps a glimmer of a future can be detected, but it had better happen soon or their will only be dust to study.

Hopefully I've not overstepped the bounds of this site causing this page to be deleted, signed, Kram — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.130.73.157 (talk) 04:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Much of your post is forum style material, and not appropriate here, but in response to your comment on Aboriginal archaeology, if you can find reliable sources that can be cited in the article it is possibly valuable comment. Do you know of such sources? HiLo48 (talk) 07:20, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Dental Care

On my last visit to Australia I noticed many Australians have very bad teeth. I have been told there is dental care in Australia. Maybe you should add it under health so people know why Australians have bad teeth.

Also, I found interesting the long (years and years) queues for social housing. That was in fact very shocking to me. Maybe you could aslo add this. Finally, I find the Australia article doesnt really represent the truth. It is more like a tourist brochure - only nice things are stated. I assume it is written moslty by the Australians... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.104.213.70 (talk) 11:25, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure that isn't something better suited for Health care in Australia? Are you sure it's also a national problem, or just an issue in a particular area (say, Redfern in Sydney)? Are you also sure that maybe the most notable points about Australia is that it's generally a nice place, and the articles spinning off from this main article go into more detail about the negative aspects? It is a big country after all and you could hardly expect one article to comprehensively detail every little detail. Comics (talk) 11:51, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Australia got its independence from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

Currently the infor box says Aust. got its indo. from the United Kingdom. I suggest this be amended to be "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland|United Kingdom" (linked). Could some one make the small linking change. I am an IP editor and can't edit the article. 86.42.28.118 (talk) 22:41, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

The UK of G. Britain and Ireland ended in 1922 according to that article. The Statutes and Acts that granted independence to Australia were all passed after Ireland had become a dominion (and, later, sovereign nation of it's own) and the other country became the United Kingdom; the only act that could be seen as independence from the earlier country is the federation of Australia. What made you concerned about the link in the first place? Comics (talk) 23:51, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the first user in that the generally accepted date of independence cited in the vast majority of cases worldwide is 1901. Saruman-the-white (talk) 12:16, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

The proper article to link to is United Kingdom, not United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and it has nothing to do with what year you consider independence to have come in. Click on that second link, and you will see that it is not about a country. It begins, "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was the formal name of the United Kingdom during the period when what is now the Republic of Ireland formed a part of it." From that, which would imply the article is about the formal name, it turns into a history of Ireland from 1801 to 1922. An article about 121 years of Irish history is not a sensible one to which this article should link in noting the country it achieved its independence from. It is not as though the United Kingdom only came to be called that after separation with Ireland, so it is not as though using the current link would somehow be deceptive. You can add on top of that Comic master's point that 1901 didn't fully provide independence anyway. You can say that the "generally accepted date" is 1901, but even were that true (which I am not convinced of), what is generally accepted is not true. Independence came in stages, which is why the infobox lists four acts (and five dates). -Rrius (talk) 13:40, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Well it was not my suggestion so i do not care much either way, however using UK of GB and Irl would probably be more consistent as the US is listed as getting independence from "the Kingdom of Great Britain". I agree that independence was a process, however to back up the person who made the original suggestion I will say that if 1901 is taken as the key date in that process, which i believe it was (more important than stat. westminst., aust. act...), then the conventional and consistent practice would be to link to the UK of GB and Irl article, as the UK of GB and N.I. did not exist on that date. I will not change it myself, though, because it doesnt bother me much either way. Saruman-the-white (talk) 07:34, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

"Commonwealth Star"

Is there any good basis for referring to the star on the Australian flag as the "Commonwealth Star". So, for example: (1) when was this phrase first used? (2) does the Australian Government refer to it as the "Commonwealth Star"? (3) is this "Commonwealth Star" description any more commonly used than other names attributed to the Star? (4) is the "Commonwealth Star" description a term that only came into use by virtue of Wikipedia (bar isolated use before that) ?

I don't know the answers but am interested in informed comment (which refers to sources). 86.42.28.118 (talk) 23:00, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

These web sites refer to the Commonwealth Star:

• Australian National Flag Association (1)
• Australian National Flag Association (2)

(Both claim the same name, but two different web sites!)

• Australian National Botanic Gardens (govt site)
• Australian National Flag (govt site)

The home page of the Australian National Flag Association currently has a digitised copy of the Review of Reviews, the Government Gazette of 1901, which reviews the flag competition entries and announces the winner. The last page of that is a detailed description of the new flag, including (under Description and Proportions of Star) the term "Commonwealth Star". Mitch Ames (talk) 02:04, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

REPLY:

Thank you for providing a good response. It was well sourced and strikes me as a good faith contribution. Thanks. I note that the following:

• the australianflag.org.au (which you pointed to) also uses the name "Star of Federation" here [1]
• the flagausnat.asn.au website (which you pointed to) also uses the name "Star of Federation" [2]
• the http://www.anbg.gov.au/oz/flag.html website you pointed to (Govt. site) also uses the name "Star of Federation"
• the [3] (Govt. site) you pointed to also uses the name "Star of Federation"

in each case, in addition to the term "Commonwealth Star". In my view the most important source by far which you have pointed to is the "Review of Reviews" [4] and the detailed flag description therein. It does indeed use the "name" "Commonwealth Star". That is the best and most authoritive source I have seen to date. I wonder was the flag approved by the Royal Herald (or whatever the relevant title is in this case); I would have thought it would be and that in so doing the flag would be described. If you found that source, it might well use the term "Commonwealth Star" also. That would put the question to bed entirely. At present, I am happy that "Commonwealth Star" is not a bogus Wiki invention or some such but a genuine term. I am also happy with the name of the article. I may add in a para showing some of the sources you have pointed to as it would seem a waste not to (as you have gone off and found this valuable information). 86.42.178.193 (talk) 11:58, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Schedule 1 of the Flags Act, 1953 includes "Table A--Commonwealth Star", but appears to have no mention of "Star of Federation", so "Commonwealth Star" would certainly appear to be the official name. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:58, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

UTC Offset

I have just altered the UTC offsets from 10.5 in normal and 11.5 in Daylight saving to 10 and 11 which is the true status. I wonder why it was given as 10.5 and 11.5 in the first place? All the Eastern States are UTC +10 (and those with Daylight Saving go to 11 in summer). SA and NT are UTC +9.5 which is possibly where the confusion lies. In fact as far as I know there is NO time zone at all that's UTC +10.5. Vanuatu, Solomons and probably parts of Russia (etc) are +11 and New Zealand (etc) is +12. In fact SA/NT are quite unusual with a half-hour time zone: geographically they are well and truly UTC +9 - the borders line up really well with 120-135 degrees longitude but they've chosen to be only half an hour behind the Eastern states for "convenience" (and so are essentially on permanent 1/2 hr daylight saving - SA goes 1-1/2 hrs forward in summer!!). Anyway, I digress: can someone suggest why we had UTC +10.5/11.5 in there at all, or was it simply a misinterpretation of where South Australia is in the scheme of things?? TheBustopher (talk) 15:59, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

As I indicated in my reversion, this is explained at Time in Australia, as specified in the note for the timezones. Lord Howe Island uses UTC+10:30 during the winter months and Norfolk Island uses UTC+11:30 all year round. The article actually appears wrong in that it should specify (UTC+8 to +11.5) all year round. --AussieLegend (talk) 00:04, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I see: I have failed to consider external territories. I can see reasons for an against including external territories into consideration - I suppose those living on Norfolk of Lord Howe WOULD call themselves Australians. I wonder what time zones other countries are given in their WP pages? (eg Hawaii for USA or maybe Gibraltar for UK (examples off the top of my head - I'm sure a few other countries wil have external territories in far removed time zones)). Better have a look, but thanks for the explanation. TheBustopher (talk) 06:39, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Good heavens, I HAVE read Time in Australia, and given that we are including external territories here, what about Heard and McDonald Islands which is UTC +5 with no DST as the furthest of the range??? In summary it needs to be UTC+5 to UTC+11.5 if we are going to have regard to all external territories... TheBustopher (talk) 06:47, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Heard and McDonald Islands are unpopulated and a very long way from Australia so we really don't need to cater for them. --AussieLegend (talk) 09:25, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, people on Norfolk Island are often quite keen to not be considered Australians. Many are descended from the Bounty mutineers, who have had nothing to do with Australia historically. But it is part of the country, they use Australian currency and are supported in many ways by Australia, so the time zone should probably be considered an Australian one. HiLo48 (talk) 10:51, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

If we include Australian Antarctic Territory, I calculate the range starting at UTC +3 (45°E), although I notice that Time in Australia#External territories doesn't include this complete range - presumably because we don't have a station right on the edge. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:18, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Let's take a step back. First of all, Hawaii is as much a US state as California, so of course it is included in the range. Note that the Northern Marianas and U.S. Virgin Islands, both of which elect non-voting delegates to Congress, are not included in the range. Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands are not included in Britain's range, and France's various overseas departments aren't included at France. That said, the real question is how much the fact that Lord Howe Island and Norfolk Island are populated and physically close to Australia matters versus the fact that their political position is significantly different from NT and the ACT. Mine own view is that it really doesn't matter because Australia's time zone situation is so complicated. -Rrius (talk) 12:55, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps a simple "Various" would suffice? I♦A 13:59, 27 February 2012 (UTC)