Talk:Capital punishment in the United Kingdom

Right to defence pre-1836 ?

Wasn't it the case that before 1836 and the Prisoners' Counsel Act, felony defendants could not be assisted by an attorney in England? This would be of interest in this article — not only could people be sentenced to death, with some considerable discretion for the judges, but also they did not get fair trials (at least according to minimal standards compared to today's trial rules). David.Monniaux 13:01, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Scotland

What a very Anglocentric article! It takes no account, as far as I can tell, of the fact that Scotland has its own legal system and a completely separate system of criminal law (with the exception of treason, which was assimilated to English law by the Treason Act 1708). Well might you wonder what relevance has... except that the Scots use of capital punishment was rather different: for example, arson as a crime doesn't exist, and the old distinction between wilful fireraising and culpable and reckless fireraising was based on the former being a capital offence. We also suffered the usual statute law reform time-lag, most famously (if I remember correctly) that it was discovered, with some horror, that treason was still punishable by hanging, drawing and quartering in Scotland into the 1940's! Perhaps I'll write something from the Scottish perspective, if I ever get the time... --Killiedaft 23:02, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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it's a fair point, perhaps this should be moved to Capital punishment in England and Wales? Jooler 23:02, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Quite agree with that point. England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland each have their own distinct legal systems. It would make sense to have seperate articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.27.15.83 (talk) 08:29, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

As it is fully abolished in all parts of the UK (abolished for all possible crimes) I would suggest making a sub-article as the laws regarding this issue are the same in every part of the UK nowadays (laws: abolished in total)

I disagree. The Home Secretary (or iirc the Secretary of State for Scotland??) made the final decision whether a person should "swing." In other words, despite different legal systems, the application of the death penalty was, ultimately, a UK central government decision. RodCrosby (talk) 08:56, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

There's absolutely no point in having a seperate article for Scotland unless somebody is prepared to write it. The only reason this article is "Anglocentric" is because nobody knows anything else about Scottish law. Why move this article to "Capital punishment in England and Wales" and then have a red link to "Capital punishment in Scotland"? If someone can fill this article out with more info on Scotland and NI then you might be able to justify doing it (except then it wouldn't be "Anglocentric" anymore, so there still wouldn't be any point...). Richard75 (talk) 15:30, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreed certainly no need for separate articles on this. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:53, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

The list seems limited to British / English executions. Until 1922 - or 1927 - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland included what became the Irish Free State, where many famous - or infamous - executions took place. Some are at Capital punishment in Ireland.86.42.213.69 (talk) 13:36, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Death penalty in colonies

Is it possible to have a section on death penalty in british colonies before their independence?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leotolstoy (talk • contribs)

In 1977 the two assassins of the Governor of Bermuda and his Aide De Camp were executed by hanging in England. Why is this not mentioned anywhere? Does Britain outsource the Death Penalty so it doesn't count? Have there been any other executions?Waukegan 10:57, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a source for this then go ahead and put it in the article. Richard75 17:54, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Richard. I just found out that the executions were carried out in Casemates Prison Bermuda, and not the UK. Waukegan 06:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Jersey and Isle of Man

Neither are part of the UK but, hey, I learnt something that I would not have otherwise, so I will leave that for some other pedant. Aatomic1 16:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

"The last execution on the Isle of Man took place in 1872." - that date looks like a misprint for 1972 to me, but I've not got a source to check against. JohnHarris (talk) 20:25, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

It's 1872. Richard75 (talk) 23:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Current support for death penalty

I came to the article to get an idea of the current level of support in the UK for the restoration of the death penalty, but this is not discussed within the article, there is also no link from the article to this subject. Either I'm not looking in the right place, or there is nothing in Wiki on this issue. WikiReaderer 14:52, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Are you saying that you are asking for a restoration of the death penalty?! This could mean reinforcing revenge and more violence for violence, and I won't allow it. I'm against the death penalty, and I just don't see any sense in killing people to say that killing people is wrong. Therefore, asking for a restoration of the death penalty in the UK or anywhere else in the world is totally unacceptable. --Angeldeb82 21:42, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh shut the fuck up. This page is for discussing how to improve the article, not your opinion about the subject of the article. Richard75 23:07, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I won't allow it - it's not really up to you as an individual is it. Jooler 01:54, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

That's what I was wondering about as well. I don't support the death penalty either, but I was wondering what the current nature of the debate was. Some of the other articles about issues such as this have explanations of the current public debate/party positions and opinion polling. EJB341 (talk) 15:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

There are often vocal calls for the death penalty's reinstatement but I have yet to encounter one that was either serious in tone or from anyone significant. However, if anyone finds a source for it with a significant voice (ie. NOT "they ought to string him up!"-Outraged Citizen #354634) it ought to be mentioned. Similarly, if the figures for the apparently regular vote on the death penalty in Parliament are available and show any significant support, that should be mentioned as well. Leushenko (talk) 01:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

The death penalty is usually the prime example given of Parliament supposedly not reflecting popular opinion on a subject but rather MPs standing against mass opinion. The media consensus is that opinion polls show the public are in favour of its restoration but a majority in the Commons are opposed (and this significantly predates the ECHR issue making a restoration impossible). However whilst this may well be regularly polled in general opinion polls about the only time the issue gets much actual media/public discussion or specific opinion polls done is in the aftermath of a particularly nasty crime that tends to distort things (and also reinforces the argument that MPs should make a careful consideration not just look at an opinion poll and vote in line with that week's majority opinion). Timrollpickering (talk) 23:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Influence on United States?

It would be interesting to read a bit more on how the British system influenced the American one in this respect. -- 212.63.43.180 (talk) 14:12, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Last Woman Execution in the UK

Article mentions last woman to be executed in the UK as Ruth Ellis in 1955, but the line preceding that tells us another woman was executed in Wales in 1958. Surely Wales is part of the UK? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.180.192.10 (talk) 14:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

In Wales, Vivian is a man's name. Richard75 (talk) 16:21, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

List of executions

The list of notable executions is quite long. Maybe it should be put on a list page and this article could include a link instead? Svenna (talk) 19:41, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Richard75 (talk) 20:15, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Time taken between conviction and execution - appeal process

I've been listening to old time radio shows recently - Black Museum, Secrets of Scotland Yard, etc - that discuss actual murder cases from the UK. In some of the shows, I've noticed that they describe the convicted man being executed weeks, or just a few months after their conviction in court. Please note that these are cases from the early-mid 20th Century. Reflecting on our contemporary American system, in which convicted murderers sit on Death Row for 15-20 years while their cases are appealed through multiple judicial levels, I was wondering if someone with the relevant knowledge could add something about the appeal process that existed in the UK for capital cases.

MarkinBoston (talk) 06:45, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

The Return

There's currently a debate about whether to restore the death penalty or not. Should this be mentioned? -- 92.4.110.206 (talk) 15:36, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Someone has added it now. However I think we don't need to go into a lot of detail about it, or else it gives the impression that nobody campaigned for the death penalty to come back until August 2011, when in fact it has been an issue almost constantly since abolition. A more general paragraph would suffice. Richard75 (talk) 18:38, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Last Woman Publicly Executed?

Article currently (2 October 2011) lists two different women (on different dates) for whom this claim is made. Obviously, provided both executions are correctly described, the later date prevails. Nandt1 (talk) 15:20, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

I assume one of them is Ruth Ellis but who is the other one? Richard75 (talk) 21:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

No,no; a misunderstanding. I am talking about public executions, i.e., in front of the crowd. Ellis died behind prison walls. The candidates here are called Brown and Kidder (see article). Now that I read the entry more carefully, it seems that the claim for Brown relates to the narrow category of those executed in Dorset, rather than nationally, so I will try to make that point more clearly. Nandt1 (talk) 21:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)