Talk:Chav

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Regional variations

Because there had been a discussion about adding other names in the UK for "chavs", I added a table of regional names for chavs (neds, charve(r)s, scallies, townies etc.) and then more people added some others from other areas of the UK.

But this has been deleted. I'm not going to add all the information back in, as I feel an edit war may commence. So at the moment, the article is not as complete as it could be. IndieSinger (talk) 20:48, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

There is a wide range of alternative terms, or at least terms used in a similar way, including townie, scally, ned, kev, charver, smick, spide, moake, steek, bazza, scuffhead, stig, skanger, yarco, and kappa slapper (females only). See World Wide Words: Chav and In the name of the Charver (sections "Results and Analysis" and "Word Etymologies") for more. Whether any or all of these are truly synonymous with "chav" may be debatable. Are these worth including in the article? leevclarke (talk) 20:23, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

chavs are usually from the north east area as from newcatle Sunderland gateshead or shields and usually speak in. Geordie accent and in nautical slang. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.212.15.122 (talk) 16:33, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Serbian word for Chav is DizelashValsodar (talk) 17:21, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I disagree that "rednecks", "hillbillies" and "white trash" are the same thing as Chav. Fundamentally, you're looking at disenfranchised disorderly youth. Red Necks, White Trash and Hillbiillies are all ages and generally peaceful although can be seen as racist and intolerant. I haven't changed it but think as someone from North America who is familiar with those terms, we've got that one wrong. You may be after 'gangsta' or something like that. I'll leave it to someone with formal knowledge of the use of these words to add more or to revise.

Someone should remove the references to Guido in the last paragraph in the etymology section. First off, the word Guido has italian american connotations. The word chav does not appear to have any connection with italian american stereotypes. See wikipedia's own page for Guido. Also the source cited is the online oxford english dictionary, which one cannot access without opening an account. I would make the edits myself, but the page is protected.66.61.83.16 (talk) 16:00, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Totally inaccurate

Hilarious article. So completely inaccurate as to be laughable. A discussion of the term Chav without a single mention of Chatham in Kent where the term originates from Gypsy culture since the mid-1800s. Dear oh dear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.119.237 (talk) 15:33, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a source? Oh dear indeed! Frognsausage (talk) 22:16, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

have a wander... "chavo" = boy http://romani.humanities.manchester.ac.uk/db/wordlist.html

"cavesko" of the boy... http://romani.uni-graz.at/romlex/lex.cgi?st=chave&rev=n&cl1=rmww&cl2=en&fi=&pm=in&ic=y&im=y&wc=

gadze... (gadjee) http://romani.humanities.manchester.ac.uk/files/21_angloromanisample.shtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.36.12 (talk) 13:22, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm concerned about the definition. I don't think "chav" is confined to teenagers at all - the use I hear made of it refers admittedly not to the elderly but otherwise to all age groups. It may have been originally confined to teenage males, but it isn't now. Basically all those given to wearing branded sportsgear, gold chains and rings from Argos, baseball caps, "designer" gear (real or fake), having tattoos and so on. It describes people belonging to a particularly crass subset of the British working class. Would someone who has edited this article consider amending the definition to take into account the wider connotations the term enjoys today?82.132.139.102 (talk) 02:00, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I was personally under the impression the word chav came from an acronym of "Council House, Anti-social and Violent" (first heard explicitly on Radio 1 a few years ago when the word first emerged into mainstream media use) This is related to the depiction of chavs and chav culture as aggressive and working class Gediness (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:33, 11 October 2010 (UTC).

Worst article ever

And the talk page is awful as well. 62.30.54.79 (talk) 00:30, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

i dont understand what is going on here?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.222.240.194 (talk) 23:31, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I would agree. Also, someone uses "folk devil" as a refrance point... Which is out of context. 'Folk Devils' was coinned in the 1960's as a means of describing the attitude of the media towards 'Mods' and 'Rockers' and Brighton riots and so on... It has little, in fact nothing to do with Chavs. Someone doesn't know their sociology... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.136.149 (talk) 19:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

"They listen to mainly MC" - aside from the weird grammar, what does MC mean? Do you mean MC's as in rappers? I'm not British, so maybe I'm missing something. --80.57.114.72 (talk) 15:03, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Where is the matching quotation mark for, "Hated by the community. According to Michael Quinion[3] and others...  ? "Pij" (talk) 18:58, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Chav talk

Chavs use words such as "innit" meaning "is not it" (Isn't it) and "blud" which means "friend". They also use "ite" meaing hello. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwjump (talk • contribs) 13:01, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

"Innit" is a common London expression, innit. Lots of non-chavs say it there. Blud - West Indian? Is there a dictionary of chavspeak somewhere? Totnesmartin (talk) 18:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

urbandictionary.com has the answers... AltitudeJunkie (talk) 14:55, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

"it" ain't a real word, it's short for innit, innit.Contributions/79.79.75.116 (talk) 21:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

They also sometime times use the incorrect phrase; "I ain't done nothin'" literally I haven't done nothing, but supposed to mean I haven't done anything. Innit. 92.7.179.26 (talk) 08:03, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

                         ^jokes^ 78.8

6.197.76 (talk) 12:46, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Jock

Is a chav something like a jock? ...Gibby is gibby (talk) 02:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

No, a Jock is from Scotland, where chavs are referred to as neds. pablo_hablo. 09:13, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

In fact I think Gibby is probably from the US, where 'jock' has a very different meaning. A chav is by no means a jock in that sense. A chav is probably more like a city dwelling redneck... Is some sort of clarificaion required in the aricle for our international 'bredren'? AltitudeJunkie (talk) 14:58, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

The phrase you want is "blud." It is a mispronounciation of the word "blood" and indicates a strong friendship/kinship bewteen two unrelated people who, regradless of genetics, consider themselves family. Although it is and can be said casually. It is not a Chav word, though as many words it can be adopted and used outside of the subculture in which birthed it. 82.132.136.149 (talk) 20:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)Know_all_geek_girl

The thread you want to reply to is "Chav talk", not this one. 85.5.38.115 (talk) 14:16, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Lad in Australian is totally different in meaning from chav. Bebofpenge (talk) 07:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

In my experience having lived in both countries the nearest American stereotype to a chav would be trailer trash. The poor, obnoxious, usually unemployed lower class who try to emulate celebrities and often buy/wear knock-offs of name brand goods. For example if Joy from My Name Is Earl moved to the UK she would probably get called a chav. Danikat (talk) 12:48, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Fashion?

Why the hell is this under wikipedia fashion? Being a chav is nothing to do with fashion, it's a type of behaviour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.78.75 (talk) 21:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

The Article states that the chav's made an impact on Fashion. with the dicisons made by burberry. So having said that the subculture has a style a way of dress much liek punks and hypsters do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.254.241.182 (talk) 00:00, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

chav atchually means nothing to do with fashion —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.131.122 (talk) 19:49, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Chav meaning

Doesn't the word chav come from the police description of Council House And Violent? The C of E (talk) 19:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the article covers that. Totnesmartin (talk) 19:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I am very suspicious of the "Cheltenham Average" definition - I imagine this is a backronym. Citation 8 is dodgy - given to support this claim does not in fact do so. In fact that citation says it is "thought to come from Chatham girls". Stroller (talk) 10:19, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Citation #10, "Cheltenham Average", seems little more than speculation on the part of the journalist, denied by his sources, in order to make a story out of nothing. RashersTierney (talk) 14:24, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Esteemed researchers including those at the Oxford English Dictionary and people like Michael Quinion agree that the Cheltenham Average and Council House And Violent definitions are both wrong. They all seem to agree that "chav" originated from the Romany words "chav", "chavi" and "chavo" which are words for (male) children or possibly from the Romany word "charver" which means "prostitute". http://www.worldwidewords.org/topicalwords/tw-cha2.htm IndieSinger (talk) 15:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Romani, "chave" and "chava" are terms for children (m and f)... similarly "gadge" or "gadgee" is the romany equivalent for "gentile" or non-romany... often used in Yorkshire and the NE for an older man. Along with "bewer" for the female equivalent of a charver... a "girl"... closest cognate I've seen is the scottish gaelic "piuthar" (sister). As in the sentence "Oy charver a you yannin' at ma bewer's gash?" ...it's basically a "Tinker" (Irish/Scottish Gypsy) argot with borrowed romany words and Cant... and people trying to allude to being "real gypos" when they aren't really - they're just the descendents of Irish travellers (tinkers) from urban centres like Mank (Manchester) and Nuke (Newcastle). I grew up in York and we used these words all the time as normal everyday language in our tracksuits whilst out "chorring" (stealing) or "twocking" (Taking WithOut Consent - a police acronym) bikes and mopeds (mispent youth!). So I regard myself as a primary source, ding, hehehe!

P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.36.12 (talk) 13:10, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Excuse me, but honestly, you believe that because Oxford Dictionary think CHAV comes from what, some old Roman words, for boy, children and prostitute that they are correct? Is that what you honestly believe? If so, I am shocked. Oh and to the nerds who are going to delete this, because it doesn't contribute to the article; F U. Chezzybab (talk) 21:56, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Chezzybab - They're ROMANI words, not Roman words. I hope this changes your view. 'Chavi' has been used for boy for years, for example Del Boy in only fools and horses uses it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ippikin (talk • contribs) 11:49, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism

This page has been subjected to a barage of vandalism. It needs a lock. Mtaylor848 (talk) 19:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

What an irony lock? You make a page about charvers and neds, and expect it NOT to get vandalised?!!!

Define what you mean by vandalism? They might be legitimate contributions by people who've got better things to do than spend hours obediently adhering to the formatting policy - it's the role of pedantic nerds to correct the formatting - whilst resisting the urge to censor what they don't understand or can't tolerate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.36.12 (talk) 13:13, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. How do we go about getting one? AltitudeJunkie (talk) 01:38, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

This really is the funniest article you've ever read though, eh? 65.95.63.13 (talk) 04:22, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Possible breach of policy re. youtube link

Is "I'm A Chav OFFICIAL VIDEO 2009", recently posted, in breach of policy and therefore liable to be removed: ? Or is it (1) a valid interpretation of 'Chav' culture and (2) policy compliant, and all that? RashersTierney (talk) 00:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Um, so the article claims the pronunciation is "/Tch'ave/"? With a link to the IPA? I don't think so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.155.151.233 (talk) 22:31, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I've corrected it for you. IndieSinger (talk) 18:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I put in the IPA and the "respell" but I'm not sure it needs the respell version. Feel free to remove it. IndieSinger (talk) 06:55, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Neds and scallies

Whilst 'neds' and 'scallies' are no doubt similar, I think they'd be better off lower down the page. The word "chav" has acquired a huge prominence to describe "cornerboys" (to use an older expression from a different country) and neither 'ned' nor 'scally' share the etymology or origin of 'chav' and 'charver'.   pablo_hablo. 23:21, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I think these other words need a section called "Regional names" or something. Maybe I'll do it now. IndieSinger (talk) 21:09, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Charver and Scally are interchangeable in Yorkshire. The promininence of "Chav" is simply southerners suddenly discovering a useful new epithet for the tribal northerners... who've been painfully aware of Charvers for decades... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.36.12 (talk) 13:15, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Chav clothing

It seems to me highly related to hip-hop and ghetto fashions in the U.S.A. Surely that's where baseball caps originated and where they were first worn at jaunty angles??

But hip hop culture is not mentioned in this article. 208.87.248.162 (talk) 03:38, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Tracksuits and burberry caps are far removed from the baggy-jeans and flat-peaks seen in the USA.

Spanish cognate words

The Dictionary of the Spanish Royal Academy derives chaval from the vocative of chavó, accented on the last syllable, the calé (Spanish gypsy) word for a boy or youth.

In Spain, chavs are usually called "cani", "bakala", "pokero" or "killo". They're known for wearing golden things, writing always with lot of "h" and listening to reggaeton and "flamenquito". They're also known because of their short intelligence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.151.93.102 (talk) 11:21, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Totally agree with it, somebody should take out that "guarro" thing and change it for "cani" "quillo/killo", "bakala", "pokero", "quinqui/kinki" (more used in the 1980's) or "charnego", more used in Catalonia because of the Spanish origin of the Catalan chavs.--ASalvans (talk) 15:05, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

In Mexico, the colloquial word chavo, accented on the first syllable, is used for a pre-adolescent boy.

Neither word has a pejorative connotation. 208.87.248.162 (talk) 03:50, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

The Spanish reference synonim should include the word "Choni" it´s more used nowadays than guarro as a pejorative word for this social underclass group. It´s only used for women, though. (When it´s used for men it´s used as a joke a choni). Here you can see what it´s known as a choni (as an example): http://www.google.es/search?q=choni&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1AFAB_enES444ES450&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=4fmyTuqOLI3U8QPI1YTsBA&ved=0CHwQsAQ&biw=1296&bih=683&sei=%204vqyTp_LB8jg8AP09rXyBA Choni is singular femenine, chonis is the plural. I hope this helps — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.29.9.128 (talk) 20:36, 3 November 2011 (UTC) That last bit about "choni" was made by me, sorry. Im going to include it.

Could it perhaps be derived from the Spanish word "chabacano", meaning "poor taste," "vulgar," "common," "of low quality," "tacky," or "coarse"? 94.173.11.26 (talk) 20:06, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

We can't include purely speculative ideas, only facts with reliable sources. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:09, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Michael Quinion

The bit on etymology seems to show him supporting two contradicting views on the origin. Bit weird. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.101.135.39 (talk) 22:47, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Chav in the 1970s

'Chav' was a widely used term in the Medway Towns in the 70s. It simply meant 'mate', almost as casual as terms such as 'duck' or 'my lover' are/were used elsewhere in the UK. No abusive connotations. Whether that morphed into the current usage I've no idea. Gowt ([[User talk:|talk]]) 11:42, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Are you aware of any refs to that effect? RashersTierney (talk) 19:43, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I grew up in the 70's early 80's in Dartford Kent (a lot of gypsy kids in our school) and we used to use the word chav as in to "borrow without the intention of giving back" e.g. "he chavved some sweets off me, the chavving b*****d" Richtea212 (talk) 20:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

No mention of the "King of Chavs"

Michael Carroll (lottery winner)? 129.120.177.8 (talk) 23:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

"Fashion" section

I removed

==Fashion== Due to the affiliation with the working class the clothes worn by Chavs tend to be associated with poverty and tastelessness. The general stereotype is that of the tracksuit wearing teenager sporting a Burberry cap. However this original image has been diluted over time and via the influence of fashion. Many young people wish to avoid resembling a chav, and therefore the cliché stereotype has become less common. Modern chavs incorporate aspects of other cultures into their appearance such as Hip-Hop, boy racer and club culture. As such it would not be uncommon to see a 'chav' wearing a hoodie or baggy jeans, although they may not be 'true' chavs.

because it seems subjective and confused. What, for instance is a "true chav"? If anyone wants to rewrite the section so that it has some citations and makes sense that would be lovely.  pablo 09:12, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Conbob97, 2 September 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Please change "to describe young people" to "to describe some young people"

Conbob97 (talk) 16:31, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Done I used 'certain' rather than 'some.' I hope you don't mind. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 17:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Subi123123123, 18 September 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Please change "of white working class background" to "normally of working class background", because I believe the meaning had broadened to be a word used to describe typically aggressive teenagers, of any race or ethnicity, and recently, not exclusively working class teenagers. Subi123123123 (talk) 15:31, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Subi123123123 (talk) 15:31, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Not done: At least one of the sources for the article include the phrase "white working class", so you'd need to have a source which speaks to this. I notice, too, that most of the formal definitions have to do with how these kids dress and say nothing about aggressiveness or anti-social behavior. Has the term really changed in that way, or is it merely being incorrectly applied to other groups of youths? Celestra (talk) 16:04, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

The term has existed throughout the country long before the media picked up on it, and got it entirely wrong. Sadly, it's hard to find references for any of this that isn't from these incorrect sources. The section "Criticism of the stereotype" lists several people who had no idea what they were talking about, and the section "Characterisation in the media" lists a lot of people who are definitely not chavs at all. The media has managed to spread it's own definition of what it THOUGHT a chav was, rather than what it actually is.

It's not snobbery - it's not even a stereotype. It's a description. If you are the type of person that hangs around street corners, shops, or bus stops, specifically to cause trouble, damage property, or harass / shout abuse at other people, you are a chav. If you are not one of those people, you are not a chav. It has nothing to do with class, dress sense, or anything else at all. Anyone can be a chav, and not everyone of the lower working class who wears a tracksuit and a burberry cap is a chav.

I would love to see this article edited to reflect the correct definition that was being spoken about all over the internet long before it appeared anywhere in the media, but as I said, finding any references is sadly going to be almost impossible now. --188.223.24.156 (talk) 06:37, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Jimbles1000, 23 September 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} In the See also section please make link to Spide/Steek a Northern Ireland term that pre-dates the use of chav. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spide Jimbles1000 (talk) 23:07, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Y Done Thanks, Stickee (talk) 23:52, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Translation for Russian wiki

Hello! I'd like to proceed the translation of this article into Russian, but since the page is locked I can't see the source. That makes my task a bit harder, especially with refs. Could you please help me?

Sorry for my poor English. I'm better at translations 'from' English since I practice at that kind of activity much more often.--Mieczeslaw (talk) 06:20, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I had you confirmed as an editor, so you can edit this page now. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:35, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Illustration

I removed the illustration, under the following rationale: I removed the editor-contributed original representation of a chav. Would it be acceptable to prominently display a caricature of a Jew on the page for 'kike'? Analogous situation here. To elaborate, I think that the image, placed as it is in the primary image position, is given undue weight--especially since it purports to represent a real social group. The pages for 'redneck' and 'white trash' don't have any images. I think that if the image is to be retained, it should be to illustrate a section about popular attitudes toward 'chavs', and not in the position that indicates it illustrates the entire article. I already removed the image; since the change was reverted I'm bringing it here for discussion. Leoniceno (talk) 17:45, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it's supposed to be a stereotype rather than necessarily a real group of people; I wouldn't imagine that many people self-identify as chavs, and the image is clearly meant to be lighthearted. I think the article is better with the image than without it. You also seem to be interested in censoring other articles as well, but the Wikipedia isn't censored, if people allege characteristics of groups of people, the wikipedia should probably cover that, as well as the (probably much better founded) countervailing views that there are to such negative stereotypes.Rememberway (talk) 19:13, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Fundamentally, neutral point of view is found by adding material until we achieve balance, not by removing material. Doing that can never end.Rememberway (talk) 19:15, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I like the cartoon chav, as I said when people were constantly trying to replace it with photos of people they thought looked chavvy. Agree with Rememberway, well put, except for the general point about adding rather than removing. Sometimes radical removal is the only way to NPOV, not here though. Itsmejudith (talk) 10:51, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I just meant that you can always argue that any particular thing in an article isn't balanced, and take it out. Pretty soon, you have no article. Balance is something the whole article has, not any sub-part. But yeah, sounds like we're on the same page.Rememberway (talk) 15:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Class

The lead says chavs are working class, but they are actually underclass. Regular working-class people such as builders, plumbers, carpenters and electricians are not chavs. 109.249.200.133 (talk) 12:51, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Chavs are significantly more likely to be burglars or muggers. Deterence ^Talk 16:00, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

It is a bit more complicated than that. A person does not necessarily have to be working to be from a working-class family or background. And, really, a chav could theoretically be from any class, it's just far more likely that they will be working class or underclass. A group of middle-class kids who wore chavvy clothes and went around beating people up for no good reason every night would still be chavs, for example: it is their actions and lifestyle that make them chavs, not their backgrounds per se (although background is obviously a major contributing factor to anyone's lifestyle choices). The picture also differs depending on location. In the more impoverished areas of large towns and cities, it is far more likely that chavs would be from the underclass. In smaller or medium-sized towns and cities, chavs are more likely to be from a greater mixture of backgrounds, perhaps even including middle-class kids (who may or may not be perceived as 'wannabe chavs' by other people, and even other chavs). In more rural areas, presumably due to a relative lack of poverty (there being far fewer members of the underclass in such areas), members of the underclass are far less likely to become chavs than members of the working classes, and are common targets for chav violence. Interestingly, chavs exist even in places where poverty does not. Another consideration is that different areas of the country have different words that mean 'chav', or something close to that, and application of the word 'chav' itself may be more limited in scope, perhaps limited to a particular 'type' of chav or to chavs from a particular region, whilst the local expression might be retained for more general usage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.5.202 (talk) 16:39, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

So...

In the US, would we call them jocks/"gangstas"? 98.24.154.187 (talk) 02:52, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

As I said futher up the page I think the best US equivilent would be trailer trash. Joy from My Name Is Earl is a prime example. Move her to a UK council estate and only the accent would give away that she's not a native chav. Danikat (talk) 13:14, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

The closest American equivalent to a Chav is a wigger, with a dash of trailer trash. Further information about the definition of a Chav can be found at urbandictionary.com (which is also good for a laugh). To put it bluntly: if your daughter's new boyfriend is a chav then you know you've failed horribly as a parent. Deterence ^Talk 15:59, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Other countries section

In America, chavs are called white trash, hillbillies, and rednecks. This completely glosses over the black community. Black chavs are called niggers.

What about "meshbacks" - in reference to the mesh back of trucker baseball caps, popularized by William Gibson. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.48.215.144 (talk) 16:11, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

In Australia, a popular term for these youths is 'lads'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1Eellee1 (talk • contribs) 10:40, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Erfinnico, 11 August 2011

Add to other countries: Finland: Kerava Erfinnico (talk) 21:01, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Can you provide a reliable source for that addition? As far as I know, Kerava is just a town in Finland. — Bility (talk) 23:41, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Drinks

I hear they drink Bacardi Breezers or a similar brands of alcopop and regard beer as to down-market.82.27.29.9 (talk) 19:43, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Doubt it, lads who drink Bacardi Breezers and alcopops are generally regarded as homosexuals, at least they were in my clubbing days ten years ago. Hence the Daffyd "I'm the only gay in this village" Bacardi and coke joke in Little Britain. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:15, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

A lot of female chavs drink alcopops; male chavs tend to be beer drinkers. 89.194.40.163 (talk) 13:32, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Citing Urban Dictionary

WP:USERGENERATED says all there is to say about whether Urban Dictionary may be used as a source. As to whether it is as reliable as Wikipedia itself, WP:CIRCULAR explains why that is moot. Neither is a reliable source. You need a third party source that comes from a recognized authority. I would look to the various dictionaries of slang which are widely available as your best bet. The OED and other mainstream dictionaries also have quite a bit of coverage of slag. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:28, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

• in brazil "chavettes" = piriguetes! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.196.104.100 (talk) 14:10, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Material sourced to popular anti-"chav" books

This is a real problem in the article and I intend to continue combatting it. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:01, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

They are still referenced to reliable sources, you removed sourced information. "Anti-chav" books or not, the paragraph covers the stereotypical viewpoint of chav traits (and they are true having experienced all first hand having grown up in a rough school and been exposed to peoples from very rough urban areas). The article does not assert that this is wikipedia's viewpoint of them, only the common stereotypical traits which I think is fine.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:06, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, don't agree that these texts are reliable for anything. They are primary sources for how the stereotype was created, but we would need a secondary source to interpret them. I have lived in supposedly "rough" areas too. Our own personal experiences are neither here nor there. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:22, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Take it to the reliable sources noticeboard if you disagree. but I think you'll find most books about chav and chav culture are similar.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:47, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, will take it to RSN, no problem. Books about chav culture are far from similar. Some are by sociologists, and there are also op-eds by well known journalists. Other books and articles are lightweight in the extreme, just red-top tabloid material. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:57, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I have to agree, too many light-weight sources here. There are synthesis, and POV issues, the term is viewed by many as a classist slur, but there is no serious attention paid to this, despite the fact that a number of the cited sources address the matter. In actuality the article looks like a practical joke and needs a serious overhaul. -- Semitransgenic _talk. 19:48, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

RSN said that those sources were useless. I will take them out again when I remember to. Itsmejudith (talk) 19:04, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

POV issues

Tagged for neutrality, multiple sources that are used in the article touch on the derogatory aspects of the word "chav", with it's classist and abusive overtones, yet none of this content is represented in the article. -- Semitransgenic _talk. 20:08, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

"Chavs are widely known for their counterfeit designer clothing and sportswear, often obtained from chain shops such as Sports Direct, JJB Sports and JD Sports" - These shops do not sell counterfeit clothes. They do, however, sell brands and styles 'chavs' like, and often have discounts which makes it possible to get 'brand' clothing for cheap. The sentence as it implies they are counterfeiters or importers of counterfeits, which is completely false.

Shops and counterfeits

"Chavs are widely known for their counterfeit designer clothing and sportswear, often obtained from chain shops such as Sports Direct, JJB Sports and JD Sports" - These shops do not sell counterfeit clothes. They do, however, sell brands and styles 'chavs' like, and often have discounts which makes it possible to get 'brand' clothing for cheap. The sentence as it implies they are counterfeiters or importers of counterfeits, which is completely false.85.157.155.247 (talk) 22:38, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I wanted to edit the article to make this change but it is protected and I do not have an account. The sentence could be made less misleading by changing it to read:

"Chavs are widely known for their counterfeit designer clothing and sportswear, the latter of which is often obtained from chain shops such as Sports Direct, JJB Sports and JD Sports" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.215.91.60 (talk) 14:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the mention of counterfeit clothing, altogether, because it was unsourced. I also removed the mention of the shops, because that was also unsourced. Lastly, I removed some of the brands mentioned, for the same reason.  Chickenmonkey  18:31, 13 January 2012 (UTC)