Talk:Civil disturbances and military action in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina

Origins of page

This page started out as Battle of New Orleans (2005). Material was moved here and merged with material from Effect of Hurricane Katrina on New Orleans#Civil disturbances.

• The last vesion of the "battle" article before merger can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_New_Orleans_%282005%29&oldid=23008455

• Discussion relating to merger and other issues can still be found here Talk:Battle of New Orleans (2005)

Petri Krohn 04:19, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Without criticizing the work put into this article, why was it separated from Effect of Hurricane Katrina on New Orleans? Deadsalmon 01:57, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Even without this section, Effect of Hurricane Katrina on New Orleans is 73k, which is very long. There is still a section in the main article (marked as a stub section) which is intended to be a short summary of this article, which can go into as much detail as warranted. -- Beland 21:03, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Questions to be answered

Here are some questions I believe need to be answered. It will be almost impossible for us to find the final answers to any of these questions now. In fact these issues will most likely be debated by scholars 30 years from now.

What we can do now is find contemporary sources that support the different points of view.

Cause of violence

1) What where the social and cultural reasons for the rapid collapse of law and order?

After the Kobe earthquake in Japan only a few cases of looting were reported. Most of these were attributed to “foreigners”.

-The causes currently published are completely speculative. This article [1] discusses research into disasters showing that a breakdown of law and order is extremely rare in disaster situations, the exceptions occuring in areas of extreme poverty and primarily focused on securing food and water. This squares with many reports from New Orleans (and New Orleans is extremely poor). User:204.96.170.74 03:43, 18 September 2005

Hidden motives guiding relief efforts

2) How much influence on on the relief effort and the follow-up did the following things have?

• The militarization of society and FEMA after 9/11

My report Were_New_Orleanians_caught_in_political_crossfire? suggests a deliberate effort on the part of the administration to deny aid during those first 4 critical days for the purpose of forcing the Governor to authorize bush to declare martial law (or create sufficient mayhem to allow the president to declare it unilaterally). this thesis is being strengthened by the recent address to the nation wherein Bush called for the need to ease his restricitons on doing just that. And Senator Warner on Sept. 13 also called for the easing of the restrictions of Posse Comitatus. See also Bush_calls_for_expanding_Federal_authority.

Bstender 04:25, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

• The desire to protect property over lives
• The desire to permanently remodel and possibly repopulate/depopulate the city [2]

Level of violence and its effect on relief operations

3) Did the level of violence really pose a threat to the relief effort?

There are reports of sniper throughout the city and even reporters were advised to wear bullet-proof wests.

• Was the violence real or perceived?

Pacification by eviction

4) What is the true reason for the complete evacuation of the city and the later forced evictions?

• Were they mandated by the “impossible living conditions” in the city?
• Was this done in an effort to pacify the city?
  • (A similar policy was used during WW II by Stalin in Chechnya.)
• Or is it part of a larger plan to permanently remove the less desired inhabitants and change the ethic balance of the city?

The Wayne Madsen Report has an unsourced report of a “Dallas meeting planing reconstruction of New Orleans without poor African Americans” (September 9) [3] They also cite Rep. Richard Baker (R-LA) as saying "We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did."

Depriving food, water and electricity

5) Where relief agencies and citizen volunteers barred from the city because of a true concern for their safety or was this part of a deliberate policy of depriving the remaining residents of food and water?

• Is this legal under international humanitarian law?

6) Why were not water and power restored?

• Is this because of damage to the distribution networks or part of the plan to starve out the residents?

Decay and demolition of buildings

Preservation of the old wooden building requires, that as soon as they are above water they are cleaned up and dried, possibly by opening holes to walls to allow the structures to dry. This would require the attention of the owners. Although water levels have receded residents are still not allowed back into the city.

7) Is the continued lockout of the city done to enable the demolition of “contaminated” or other undesired property against their owners wishes?

Posse Comitatus Act

8) Were federal troops used for law enforcement?

• If so, was this allowed by the Posse Comitatus Act?

This report by BBC's Matt Frei shows the 82nd Airborne patrolling on Bourbon street. [4]

-- Petri Krohn 04:27, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

No neutral point of view

There are many parts of this article where NPOV is violatedjuan andrés 22:31, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Elucidate, please. scot 22:50, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, you'r right. There s No NPOV violated, so I'm retiring the NPOV templatejuan andrés 05:48, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Removed external links

These external links (except for two) where moved by User:Tijuana Brass for less clearly specified reasons. Some of these were originally included as references. Some may be POV, but the collection should reflect both or all views. I do not have time to go through these and argue for them now. Maybe I will take the issue up again later. -- Petri Krohn 21:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

• Barbara J. Stock: Was President Bush Forced to Use the Insurrection Act?
• Hurricane Katrina - Our Experiences By Paramedics Larry Bradshaw and Lorrie Beth Slonsky
• DAVID VEST: The Battle of New Orleans - It's Looking a Lot Like Fallujah
• War on the Poor in New Orleans 2: The Attempt to Declare Martial Law
• Prof. James Petras: The Militarization of New Orleans. From Victims to Vandals
• What Is Martial Law? And is New Orleans under it?
• Reports by BBC correspondent Matt Frei
  • 82nd Airborne patrolling the French Quarter on Monday 9/5 (Real Media stream)
  • Raid on suspected "looter" holdout in housing project 9/7
• New York Times 2005/09/29 "Fear Exceeded Crime's Reality in New Orleans"

Petri, I would be happy to discuss in depth these links with you, but after explanations both in the edit summary and on your talk page, you have not provided any explanation why you wish to keep them. Tijuana Brass^¡Épa!-E@ 06:01, 28 April 2006 (UTC)