Talk:Countertenor

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Question

Shouldn't there be some other examples from popular music? I immediately think of Claudio Sanchez (Coheed and Cambria), and especially Anthony Green from Circa Survive, who I believe can sing entirely in the contralto range without use of falsetto. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.184.26.180 (talk) 03:35, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

No188.238.15.147 (talk) 03:27, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Only in classical?

I am skeptical about the unsourced opinion expressed in the list section of this article that the term "countertenor" is only applied within the context of classical music. In fact, this assertion is simply false. Klaus Nomi, for example, is generally considered a countertenor, and while he has recorded quirky interpretations of some opera music, he is generally known for recording popular music. Similarly, I don't know how you'd classify the voice of Antony Hegarty except as a countertenor.

While I suspect a sort of genre bigotry applies to this unsourced opinion statement, which appears to have been used to chop out singers of popular music from this article, I might simply be ignorant as to some particular quirk of definition that makes this interpretation correct. Therefore, I am posting this to the discussion page before making an edit.

In any case, if this assertion, which amounts to nothing more than an unsupported opinion at the moment, is to remain, it should be sourced in some way. Even if sourced, it still leaves the question of what term is to be used for people with the vocal range of Klaus Nomi, Antony Hegarty, and similar singers. Further, one wonders whether the definition of "countertenor" is a particular vocal range, or a genre identification.

muldrake (talk) 20:57, 20 January 2009 (EST)

To answer your question, a countertenor is neither a vocal range or genre identification but a voice type. The term countertenor is a classical music term and really shouldn't be used elsewhere as there are certain assumptions inherent in the terms use and definition that would make it falsely translated to other genres. For confirmation see, F. Hodgson: ‘The Countertenor’ (1965), P. Giles: The History and Technique of the Counter-Tenor (1995), and J.B. Steane's "Countertenor" article in the New Grove Dictionary of Opera (1992). As for people like Klaus Nomi, I would assume that music reviewers in newspapers may have used the term in a somewhat non-standard way as their really is no equivalent term in popular music for men who sing primarily in falsetto. Such artists, however, have not been included in scholarly discussions and major publications on the term countertenor. Their inclusion is certainly not found among musicologists and other academic writers to my knowledge.Nrswanson (talk) 02:13, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I have just removed Michael Jackson from the list, using the "classical" criterion. I imagine therefore that Raine Maida and Greg Pritchard should "go" as well. Opinions, please.voxclamans (talk) 09:40, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

How a countertenor can be a voice type and not a role? I know for sure many countertenors are Low baritones, even basses, ), using light head voice (or reinforced falsetto) or vocal fold dampening, to reach their highest notes, some are "Male Altos" (contraltino) just men with thinner folds than the high tenors, singing in light mixed voice (full voice with no dampened vibrating tract in folds) in the alto range, but not soprano-mezzo range, usually. I read, though, about the term sopranist, that it actually refers to a men having natural soprano range so a castrati or one with endocrinal problems (no offence intended), thus it would be correct to say a countertenor or "falsettist" sings as sopranist, not "is" a sopranist. If this distinction doesn't apply to the term countertenor, then we can say countertenor is not a a voice type, but many voice type, as "voice type" describes the calibre and length/thickness of vocal folds, not your range.

Antome — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.15.225.191 (talk) 23:32, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I think this "countertenors are only classical singers" is absurd, snobbish nonsense. Jimmy Somerville is a perfect example of a counter-tenor, a man known for singing in a falsetto range. The definition is about the vocal range, not the style of music being sung. Tenors can sing pop, jazz or classical - why can't counter-tenors?Gymnophoria (talk) 12:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

What about Philip Bailey (Earth, Wind, & Fire)? LizFL (talk) 05:36, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Could the interpretation have changed with time? If so,this should be documented in the history section. ie I have access to a Will Oakland 78 from about 1910, and it clearly states that he is a countertenner. I am prepared to photograph/link this as verification that the producers of that record clearly felt he was a countertenner. 82.47.136.229 (talk) 12:25, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Listen and compare / Broken link

I removed the section Listen and compare because it referred to the broken link http://harmony.oakweb.ca/sampler/waschinski_vologeso5.mp3 . Without this link the paragraph had nothing to add. Bennor (talk) 10:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Notable twentieth/twenty-first century countertenors removed

I removed the section Notable twentieth/twenty-first century countertenors per discussion at WikiProject Opera. These lists add nothing to the reader's understanding of the term, and it fact, are confusing and misleading e.g. the continuous addition of Michael Jackson. I replaced it it with a See also section with a link to Category:Countertenors Voceditenore (talk) 19:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Contratenor redirects here?

If a Contralto is a range below Alto, then shouldn't a Contratenor be a range below Tenor? If that is so, it should not redirect here, as Countertenor is a range ABOVE tenor, not below. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darktangent (talk • contribs) 01:58, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Some remarks about repertoire and famous arias

The section “Repertoire” appears meaningless: a proper operatic repertoire for countertenor has existed but for the last sixty years. As far as the previous period is concerned, countertenors may perform any kinds of parts originally written for women and castrati, but one cannot properly describe them as a countertenor repertoire.
After saying that “most of the repertoire that is sung by a countertenor are those written for castrati. Some of the most notable include:”, the section lists, without any apparent criterion (why Eustazio and not Ariodante, for instance?), a series of roles some of which were not actually written for castrati, such as, for instance: Dido and Aeneas’ones, Cherubino, Prince Orlofsky, Nicklausse, besides Oberon, which is undoubtedly a real countertenor role.
The list of famous arias reported at the foot of the article seems to be even more senseless: why exactly those arias and not any other ones of the huge number that might as well be cited?
I suggest therefore that both sections referred to above should be effaced.--Jeanambr (talk) 23:04, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Having tried to do an edit on this section, I am very glad to find your remarks, since I think you're absolutely right. To be anything like exhaustive, this section would need to be pages long, and there would be endless disagreements between contributors as what should be included. In my opinion, these sections should be deleted. voxclamans (talk) 16:42, 22 July 2011 (UTC)