Talk:Douglas MacArthur

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Douglas MacArthur article.
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Douglas MacArthur has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 19, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
September 5, 2006	Good article reassessment	Delisted
April 13, 2010	Good article nominee	Listed
April 21, 2010	WikiProject A-class review	Approved
May 11, 2010	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
Current Status: Good article

faq page Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Controversies, praise, and criticism

Q1: Why isn't there a criticisms/controversies section?

A1: Because a section dedicated to criticisms and controversies is no more appropriate than a section dedicated solely to praises and is an indication of a poorly written article. Criticisms/controversies/praises should be worked into the existing prose of the article, per WP:CRIT.

Q2: Why isn't a certain controversy/criticism/praise included in this article?

A2: Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy says that "All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view, representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources. This is non-negotiable and expected of all articles and all editors." Criticism or praise that cannot be reliably sourced cannot be placed in a biography. Also, including everything about MacArthur in a single article would exceed Wikipedia's article size restrictions. A number of sub-articles have been created and some controversies/criticisms/praises have been summarized here or been left out of this article altogether, but are covered in some detail in the sub-articles.

Q3: This article needs much more (or much less) criticism/controversy.

A3: Please try to assume good faith. Like all articles on Wikipedia, this article is a work in progress so it is possible for biases to exist at any point in time. If you see a bias that you wish to address, you are more than welcome to start a new discussion, or join in an existing discussion, but please be ready to provide sources to support your viewpoint and try to keep your comments civil. Starting off your discussion by accusing the editors of this article of having a bias is the quickest way to get your comment ignored.

Other issues

Q4: This article is over 100kb long, WP:SIZE says that it should be broken up into sub-articles. Why hasn't this happened?

A4: The restriction mentioned in WP:SIZE is 100kB of readable prose, not the byte count you see when you open the page for editing. As of 00:29, 13 October 2011 (UTC), this article had about 11,312 words of readable prose (68 kB according to prosesize tool, well within the guideline. The rest is mainly citations and invisible comments, which do not count towards the limit.

Q5: I added something to the article but it got removed. Why?

A5: In all probability what you added was trivia, unsourced information or information cited to an unreliable source; such information is usually removed quickly. Articles on Wikipedia require reliable sources for an independent verification of the facts presented, consequently any information added to an article without a reliable source is subject to removal from the article at any Wikipedian's discretion.

Q6: I tried to edit this article but couldn't. Why?

A6:This article has been indefinitely semi-protected due to persistent vandalism or violations of content policy. Semi-protection prevents edits from anonymous users (IP addresses), as well as edits from any account that is not autoconfirmed (is at least four days old and has ten or more edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed. Such users can request edits to this article by proposing them on this talk page, using the {{editsemiprotected}} template if necessary to gain attention. They may also request the confirmed userright by visiting Requests for permissions.

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[edit] was general mac arthur right or left handed?

respond hknbkem@hotmail.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.141.212.243 (talk) 23:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

You need to ask Yahoo Answers, not Wikipedia. Skiendog (talk) 20:44, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Thoughts on the next FAC run

The previous FAC brought up several complaints; one was size of the article but according to the latest data it's clearly within the guidelines.
One editor screamed the loudest about neutrality and I'm not sure if that still has any merit. I have to read through the article again.
After working this year on Abraham Lincoln I believe this article would benefit from some sort of "Historical reputation" section as shown in the Lincoln article. That may indeed be required here in order to gain the neutrality editors claimed was missing. Brad (talk) 00:00, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
- Not sure. Read through the Legacy paragraph of Relief of General Douglas MacArthur and tell me what you think. Hawkeye7 (talk) 04:33, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

That's certainly in the right spirit. In this article the objective would be to show how opinions of MacA have changed over the years. During WWII and after he was a God in the eyes of the American public. From there he has slowly descended into how Halberstam treated him most recently. Brad (talk) 03:30, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking of renominating, but there will be periods in the next two months when I cannot edit. Hawkeye7 (talk) 01:58, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I am uncertain about the reason for the fall in opinions of Big Mac. Part of the problem was that the big biographical effort was undertaken in the 1970s (James, Manchester, Petillo) and this was a time when the US military was in deep disfavour over Vietnam. Whereas Truman was rehabilitated in the early 1960s, in the Kennedy era. If they had waited a decade, Truman would have come off as a proto-Nixon. Hawkeye7 (talk) 02:11, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

What readers and reviewers have brought up the most are the Unit 731 pardon, and his dismissal. Somehow Halberstam has become an expert on MacA even though his book wasn't a bio of MacA. I don't understand the obsession with Halberstam. There have also been complaints about the "age" of the references but we know that the majority of the scholarship was done during those years. I would recommend leaning a bit more on the 1996 Perett book. It is a good work with full sources used in its making; much more so than the high and mighty Halberstam work. I will take the time soon to read the article in depth and see if I can spot any other troubles. Brad (talk) 05:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

That's too weak a reed to lean on. I Just took Perett off the shelf and opened it at a random page. It turned out to be page 544. It says "Robert Eichelberger would eventually get his fourth star, but it bright him no happiness. He was awarded posthumously, after both he and MacArthur were dead." Well, Eichelberger got his fourth star in 1954. He was still alive. So was MacArthur. Typical of that book. In the other hand, I quite enjoyed Frank. It's a new book, a small one from the "Great Generals" series. I wasn't expecting much but it is quite good. I was hoping that I could fob the dismissal crowd off with the dismissal article, which is currently in A class review. Hawkeye7 (talk) 08:28, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

"I was hoping that I could fob the dismissal crowd off ..." That's a rather remarkable admission of lack of neutrality towards the many scholars who are critical of MacArthur, don't you think? --Yaush (talk) 16:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

There's the subject, and there's the article. The problem with the article is that it is already large, and has to cover a lot of ground. We don't want it to be "lumpy", covering some topics in great detail while skimming others. I think it says no more about Unit 731 than is appropriate; the reader is redirected to the subarticle. The same applies to the Tokyo trails and the dismissal. By "scholars critical of MacArthur" we are talking about James and Petillo, not Halberstam or Randy in Boise Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:11, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Supreme Commander of/for the Allied Powers

FYI: Talk:Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers#Requested move. 86.181.170.34 (talk) 23:13, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Per the name change at the above link, I think we should change instances of "Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers" to "Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers" in this article too. 109.151.39.98 (talk) 14:38, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
- Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:10, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

[edit] "Never fight a land war in asia"

I can find loads of sources that casually attribute this famous phrase to MacArthur, but none that actually provide evidence for the attribution. Does anyone know of a reliable source that supports (or refutes) the attribution? Manning (talk) 03:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

The best one is Life Magazine 7 August 1970. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

[edit] I would like to add this to the intro

We are not retreating — we are advancing in another direction.

— --~~General Douglas MacArthur~~ Oliver P. Smith

I think it shows his character very well, and could help people get into his mindset. Overall i believe it will enrich the intro section to include this quote.

````

MacArthur did not say this. That was Oliver P. Smith See Smith's article for details. Hawkeye7 (talk) 08:29, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Douglas MacArthur

Contents

[edit] was general mac arthur right or left handed?

[edit] Thoughts on the next FAC run

[edit] Supreme Commander of/for the Allied Powers

[edit] "Never fight a land war in asia"

[edit] I would like to add this to the intro

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