Talk:Dyslexia

WikiProject Dyslexia

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Text regarding Sir Rose report temporarily removed

Hi, there.

A hearty welcome, and my apologies, offered to new wikipedia editor Woosycat. If Woosycat had a personal page, I'd ask for clarification and try to come to consensus there. Since there isn't one, I thought the best route would be to delete the information temporarily so we could perhaps achieve consensus here.

The removed text is as follows:

A recent government funded report by Sir Jim Rose has been issued in June 2009 clarifying how dyslexia is to be defined. {{cite news | first=Michael Rice Dr Michael Rice (University of Cambridge, formerly Senior Research Officer, NRDC Institute of Education) with Greg Brooks Research Director, NRDC Sheffield, and Professor of Education, University of Sheffield | title = Developmental dyslexia in adults: a research review | date=2004-05-01 | publisher=National Research and Development Centre for Adult Literacy and Numeracy | url =http://www.nrdc.org.uk/projects_details.asp?ProjectID=75 | pages =*133-147 | accessdate = 2009-05-13 }}</ref><ref name='University'>{{cite book |last=Brazeau-Ward |first=Louise |title=Dyslexia and the University |publisher=Canadian Dyslexia Centre |year=2001 |location=Canada |pages=1–3 |url=http://www.dyslexiaassociation.ca/english/files/universityanddyslexia.pdf |isbn=1-894964-71-3}}</ref>

The report mentioned seems to have come from the UK. There's nothing wrong with that! But since this particular section is a very prominent one in the article, information we provide here needs to be broad in scope in terms of applicability. For country-specific information, when we refer to "the government", we'd need to specify the UK government, that the report was specifically about adult dyslexia rather than dyslexia across the lifespan, etc etc.

This is very good information, and we could include it in a few different ways. One would be to create context in this section for country-specific information. Another way might be to place the information in another section of the article. There used to be a paragraph in the controversy section that discussed the fact that some people assert that dyslexia does not exist as a disorder. I believe that information was from the UK also. Perhaps these two facts would be good if placed somewhere together?

Thoughts?

Best, and again, a warm welcome to Woosycat ....

Rosmoran (talk) 23:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Introduction

I have changed the introduction as well as expanding it. I realized that dyslexia is caused by unknown factors because if someone who suffers from mental retardation but cannot read does this person has dyslexia? No, because it is caused by mental retardation, a known factor. Someone who suffers from dyslexia, there is no known factors. It is all theories but nothing about real causes. If you have any issues with this, please let me know. Esthertaffet (talk) 15:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I think you made some changes that could be very good, especially your point about dyslexia being diagnosed at all levels of intelligence. By definition, dyslexics have at least average intelligence. I modified the old statement to more closely reflect the statement made by Sally Shaywitz in the cited source. I'm sure we could find another source that would frame the information differently. If you can find one, let's look at modifying the statement.

As for causes, because of functional brain scan technology we actually know much more than ever before about the various etiologies of dyslexia, so it wouldn't be accurate to say that there are no known causes. The bigger problem is that there are so many definitions of dyslexia that it's impossible to narrow down to a limited number of causes.

I have seen a similar statement to the one you added regarding dyslexics having trouble learning to read if left to figure things out for themselves or if taught in conventional ways. This is a very important point, but I can't remember the source of that information. Do you know where it came from? I think if we can cite a source for the information we should include it in the article in some appropriate location.

Best, Rosmoran (talk) 09:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

The cause for dyslexia cannot be just a person with dyslexia is wired differently due to using functional brain scan technology. That's not a cause. I'm sure there are people who don't have dyslexia but have similar brain scans with people who have dyslexia. There must be more research on dyslexia in order to formulate the causes of dyslexia. Since "unknown causes" was rejected, what other terms can we use?

"Dyslexia is not an indicative of intelligence level. Rather, people with dyslexia have trouble performing specific types of skills or completing tasks if left to figure things out by themselves or if taught in conventional ways. Dyslexia cannot be cured or fixed; it is a lifelong issue. With the right support and intervention, however, people with dyslexia can succeed in school and go on to successful, often distinguished careers later in life."

I didn't think it required a source. I thought it was just common knowledge. Esthertaffet (talk) 15:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Regarding whether the text about dyslexics having trouble learning to read "if left to figure things out for themselves or if taught in conventional ways" is common knowledge: It could certainly be considered common knowledge in the community of dyslexia professionals, but I don't think this can be considered common knowledge in general---for example, I've never met an educator not trained in some orton-gillingham program who has any knowledge of the special instructional requirements of most dyslexics. If they don't know it, the general population certainly won't. The statement itself is very powerful and easy to understand, but it is framed very differently than what we see in most dyslexia literature. This unique-ness is what needs to be cited.

Help me understand what you're trying to say about the "cause" of dyslexia. Perhaps our difference is semantic rather than substantial.

Here's an attempt to clarify where I'm coming from: We know several areas of the brain that often function very differently in dyslexic readers of English than in typical readers of English, two of which are those parts of the brain that process phonological information and the parts that process the orthographic information (the visual squigglies on the page) that is then translated into sounds->words->meaning. The neurological pathways required to process this information the didn't develop normally, so the brain compensates by trying to build alternative pathways, which of course are less efficient.

I would consider this abnormal information processing a "cause" of dyslexia, at least for people trying to read English orthography. On the other hand, one could argue that the actual cause is whatever disrupted the brain development process during which these pathways should have been created.

Does this describe how we are using the word "cause" differently?

Rosmoran (talk) 23:33, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but no one truly knows what disrupted the brain development process. In other words, how come the brain is wired differently for people with dyslexia? There is never a straight answer to why people have dyslexia, other than they are wired differently. Esthertaffet (talk) 15:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Let's say someone has Down syndrome. A person with mental retardation has his brain wired differently. The cause for that is because he has Down syndrome. This would explain why it affects the brain's ability to receive and process information. Now let's go back to someone with dyslexia. A person with dyslexia has his brain wired differently. The cause for that is because he has ???. There is no answer. How would this explain what is affecting his brain to receive and process information? Of course there is no cure for dyslexia because there was never a cause to begin with. Esthertaffet (talk) 15:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the down syndrome/dyslexia comparison: Someone with Down Syndrome has a brain wiring difference that has been classified and named -- that doesn't say what *caused* the wiring difference. Ditto, someone with OCD has a brain that is wired differently. What caused the different brain wiring? We don't know. (Actually, we know a couple of things that may have caused it, but in most cases there's no way to figure that out yet.) So that argument doesn't hold.

Nevertheless, your original point is that, from your perspective, the "cause" is whatever disrupted the brain development so that the neural pathways are not developed properly, yes?

Rosmoran (talk) 20:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Esthertaffet (talk) 21:53, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Great. So, how best to handle this? I just spent some time sampling the Wikipedia articles for a number of neurological disorders, and most of them don't specifically address causes (except things like strokes and brain traumas).

Is this something we want to emphasize in the article? the fact that we don't know specifically what caused the brain wiring to be abnormal?

Rosmoran (talk) 00:13, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I have found references. The first article said that "nobody quite knows at the moment" and the second article said that it was unknown. With this being said, can we say that dyslexia is caused by "unknown factors"? [1] [2] Esthertaffet (talk) 21:24, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

That wasn't what I was saying needs to be cited. Rather, as I said above, it was the qualifying text "if left to figure things out for themselves or if taught in conventional ways" that needs citation.

I don't think it matters whether the text is worded "unknown cause" or "unknown factors." The dicey bit is the text surrounding those words. The article already says that dyslexia is neurological in origin, so someone would need to craft some wording around "neurological in origin" and "unknown cause."

That said, in my last post I asked the question: "Is this something we want to emphasize in the article? the fact that we don't know specifically what caused the brain wiring to be abnormal?" (The answer may well be "yes.")

Best, Rosmoran (talk) 03:41, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Article should be edited to represent the lack of medical consensus regarding dyslexia from causation to existence —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.144.204 (talk) 16:23, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

General idea for a tool

I did not know where else to post, so I just stuck this up here..

• Dyslexia help-application collection —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.91.73.39 (talk) 01:28, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

My PubMed Dyslexia research paper collections

For anyone wish to find supportive research papers when editing the Dyslexia article I have collated some online Research paper collections at PubMed.

• Alexia collection
• Aphasia collection
• Dorsal and Ventral Streams - functional anatomy of language collection
• Dyslexia and Attention collection
• Dyslexia and Auditory Processing collection
• Dyslexia and Cognitive Nuerology, Neurobiology collection
• Dyslexia and Genetic Research collection
• Dyslexia and Morphological Processing collection
• Dyslexia and Orthography collection
• Dyslexia and Phonological Processing collection
• Dyslexia and Remediation collection
• Dyslexia and Speech and Language Impairments collection
• Dyslexia and Visual Processing collection
• Dyslexia and Working Memory collection
• Dyslexia in Logographic (Chinese, Japanese) Orthographies collection
• Learning collection
• Otitis Media collection
• Plasticity collection
• Reading collection

there are probably some 200 plus research papers in these collections

best wishes

dolfrog (talk) 17:52, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

These collections have recently been expanded to include Dyslexia and Cognitive Nuerology, Neurobiology collection by year of publication, and a new series regarding Leading Dyslexia Researchers see User:Dolfrog dolfrog (talk) 04:01, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

dyslexia and background noise media debate

Medical News Today 12/11/09 published an article New Brain Findings On Dyslexic Children and on 13/11/09 they published my reply to the article dolfrog (talk) 05:03, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

origin of the word

I looked this up to find out where the word dyslexia comes from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.91.100.38 (talk) 18:36, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

What about Strengths of Dyslexia?

How come there is nothing on strengths of Dyslexia?

There are strengths that Dyslexics tend to have like strong ability to visualize,picture things in their mind's eye.

I really believe that it depends on whether the Dyslexia is genetic or not I believe the same with other neurodivergent conditions like Dyspraxia,ADHD,Autistic Spectrum —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satabishara (talk • contribs) 19:02, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

For that to be included, it would need to have a verifiable source - see WP:VERIFYAutarch (talk) 20:16, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

There are no strengths of dyslexia. Dyslexia is the shared symptom of a number of cognitive information processing deficits / disorders, are catagorised by the Cognitive subtypes of dyslexia. Acta Neurobiol Exp (Wars). 2008 The so called strengths are the cognitive compensatory strategies developed to work around the cognitive deficit which causes the dyslexic symptom. dolfrog (talk) 03:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

What if the strengths of Dyslexia are actually what is causing the problem in the first.....like strong right hemisphere processing interfering with left hemisphere processing as well as even an ultrasensitivee nature that can be seen as having sensory integration problems.

Why is it a cognitive deficit? Who decides that it's a cognitive deficit? Just because a person's way of thinking,and learning is different doesn't mean that it's a disorder nor deficient. A different mind is not a deficient mind.

There are strengths with Dyspraxia,Autistic Spectrum,Dyscalculia,and Tourette Syndrome. I think that it's more with the genetic types and not the acquired types 69.230.104.229 (talk) 10:13, 17 April 2010 (UTC)Satabishara69.230.104.229 (talk) 10:13, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I think you need to read some of the research regarding dyslexia, and the related issues. Dyspraxia is about having motor cognitive problems, which is why it is also known as Dyspraxia - Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) in the majority of research papers regarding the condition The Autistic Spectrum is a wide range of issues which are cause by multiple cognitive disorders, which can cause a spectrum of information processing problems. Dyscalculia is about having problems processing numeric information

All of the above are the result of developmental cognitive deficits / disorders many of which have an initial genetic cause. Dyslexia is not a condition, but a shared symptom of many sometimes co-morbid cognitive conditions such as Auditory Processing Disorder, Visual Process Disorder (which are cognitive sensory information processing disorders) ADHD etc. Most are born with these cognitive deficits / disorders, and from birth subconsciously begin to develop compensating cognitive skills to work around their cognitive deficits. It is these compensating cognitive skills or coping strategies which you are calling "strengths". These compensating cognitive skills are not usually developed by others who do not have a cognitive deficit / disorder, and this is why dyslexics and others have to thinking differently to try and cope with their cognitive deficits.

These same cognitive problems can be acquired via an accident, severe brain injury, stroke, dementia, etc. But this does not usually happen during early development, when we are most able to subconsciously develop compensating cognitive skills. dolfrog (talk) 17:48, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Reorganized

I have reorganized the text here as per WP:MEDMOS and the requested tag. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:27, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Controversy section

This section is based on one paper, Elliot and Gibbs (2008), and currently nothing else. That one paper is in a philopophy of education journal, not a scientific journal. It seems to me this needs to be cleaned up or dumped. Thoughts? Dbrodbeck (talk) 11:54, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Dyslexia is an educational diagnosis, not a clinical diagnosis. There are neurological clinically diagnosed disabilities or disorders which have dyslexia as a symptom. International dyslexia research over the last decade or so has been investigating the various factors which can cause dyslexia, such as the auditory, visual, and attentional cognitive factors which can cause the dyslexic problems. The "Contoversy" is the challenge being made to the concept that dyslexia is condition or disorder with a single neurological cause, which has been the claim made or the educational philosophy used by those advocating the existance of dyslexia in the English speaking world, especially in the USA and the UK. The advocates in the USA and the UK claim scientific research supports their notion that dyslexia has a single neurological cause, which would be feasable using the technology etc of the 1970s and 1980s, when these concepts of dyslexia were created, as were the remedial programs which these advocates use or sell to those who have dyslexia. So this paper questions this 1970s / 1980s educational philosophy (which has been adopted by the respective governments) and questions the diagnostic process, which is currently based on the scientific research of the 1970s / 1980s, and ignores the international dyslexia research of the last decade or more. The content of this article tries to reflect the current international research which is focused on identifying dyslexia and its neurological causes, while at the same time trying to define the working in everyday life being done to help remediate information processing and learning problems experienced by dyslexics, much of which is not in line with cutting edge research. I think i have i have covered most of the issues of this very complex set of issues dolfrog (talk) 12:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure what an 'educational diagnosis' is. Dyslexia is covered by the ICD 10, for example. Do we not have to follow WP:MEDRS here? Would the paper in question meet that standard? Dbrodbeck (talk) 14:35, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

What is ICD 10 Prof Elliot refers to the situation in the UK dolfrog (talk) 14:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

dyslexia is an educational diagnosis using educational measures (measuring reading speeds etc) as opposed to a medical or clinical diagnosis using medical diagnostic tests dolfrog (talk) 14:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

as an example Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) is neurological condition regarding how the brain processes all sound heard by the ears, including speech. Dyslexia is about having problems with the visual notation of speech. So those who have APD will have problems processing speech sound information, and they will also have problems processing any notation of speech sound information. dolfrog (talk) 14:58, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Click the link in the infobox on the page that says ICD to find out about it. Many psychological/neurological/developmental disorders are diagnosed with behavioural measures. Dbrodbeck (talk) 15:01, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

ICD 10 dates back to 1992 which is can only be based on the research science of 20 years ago. Research has moved on significantly since then and a great deal more is now known about the underlying causes of dyslexia since then, and some researchers are discussing Biomarkers for the underlying causes of dyslexia, but not for dyslexia itself. I also noticed that ICD 11 is due anytime, which may include more recent research regarding dyslexia and the underlying neurological or clinical causes. Prof Elliot is saying that Dyslexia does not exist, but the clinical underlying causes do. And Dyslexia is a man made problem, man created the various writing systems as a visual communication system, and some who have various cognitive deficits or disorders will have difficult accessing this man made communication system, depending on the cognitive skill sets required to decode the symbols, which varies between the different writing systems, and the languages within each writing system. For example it is possible to be dyslexic in one language of one writing system and not dyslexic in a langauge from a different writing system. It is all down to the orthography of the language being used. dolfrog (talk) 15:20, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

have a look at Cognitive subtypes of dyslexia 2008Acta Neurobiol Exp (Wars). 2008;68(1):73-82..

diagnosis

Even if this varies by country (which I know it does), why is there nothing on who diagnoses dyslexia and how this is achieved? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.119.248.25 (talk) 02:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Dyslexia is about having problems with a man made communication system, the visual notation of speech, which varies according the the writing system being used, and the orthographic variations of each language within each writing system. Dyslexia is not a medical or clinical diagnosis, as there are no internationally recognised biomarkers to identify the existence of dyslexia. Each country has their own form of educationally based diagnostic tests and each country defines the specific professions that can diagnose dyslexia. International research has indicated that the way forward is to identify the underlying cognitive / medical causes of the dyslexic symptom, such a auditory processing , visual processing, and attention. These three cognitive measures can be clinically diagnosed, and can individually or in any combination cause the dyslexic symptom. dolfrog (talk) 09:40, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Dehaene's book Reading in the Brain will help greatly with improvement of this article.

It would be a really good idea for several Wikipedians to have Reading in the Brain: The Science and Evolution of a Human Invention by Stanislas Dehaene at hand as they continue to edit this interesting article. The book is recent, very well researched, and very clear on the neurology of different forms of dyslexia. It also has an excellent cross-cultural perspective on writing systems and dyslexia.

-- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 17:46, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

The real problem with this type of book is that it is not peer reviewed and may be slanted towards a prospective market, if you could source some peer reviewed research papers by the same author which are accessible online than that would be greatly appreciated. dolfrog (talk) 18:35, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Having read the reviews of the book, there would appear to be an unbalanced perspective of scientific research slanted to a range of teaching and intervention programs, based on alphabetic languages, and ignoring the need for both lexical and sub-lexical processing as part of the reading process. dolfrog (talk) 18:57, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Reading the actual book rather than reviews will allay your concerns about the book. It has a much broader perspective than that, is very much based on peer-reviewed research published in professional journals (lavishly cited in the book), and is based on considerable clinical experience with dyslexic persons. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 19:04, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Follow-up question: which reviews did you read of the book in the twenty-two minutes after I posted the citation? I learned about the book originally from favorable reviews posted in places where I consistently find recommendations of good books. I happen to have read a lot of the primary research literature that Dehaene cites, and he cites and summarizes that research accurately and even-handedly. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 20:13, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

from your edits so far this you have little understanding of the various writing systems, and lack an internation understanding of the visual notion of speech, which is waht text is. Again provide some international peer reviewed research papers, from you contributions so far Dehaene is no authority on reading or dyslexia, or if he is then he is just one among many who have their point of view to promote the sales of their book dolfrog (talk) 19:31, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

When you write, "from your edits so far this you have little understanding of the various writing systems," you are making a mistake based on insufficient evidence. In fact, I have academic training in Chinese, various Indo-European languages, Hebrew, Greek, and Japanese (this is revealed on my user page) and also in linguistics. I have extensive experience in teaching English reading both to English-as-a-second-language learners and to native speakers of English and also some experience in teaching Chinese literacy to second-language learners. I have read a number of scientific books and articles about the origin and development of writing systems around the world, and about dyslexia and reading instruction. I have immediate family relatives whose first languages of literacy were Japanese, Chinese, or English. Please do not assume too much about other users' backgrounds until you have checked more facts; the article can improve in content best by all of us looking up references carefully and then checking their quality. I appreciate the efforts you have made on your user page to share references with other Wikipedians and will be looking up many of those references. Feel free to look at a subpage of my user page for citations on some closely related issues. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 20:10, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

The reviews of Dehaene's book from the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, and the Frontal Cortex blog are easily available popular reviews by reviewers with relevant professional training and experience. The review in the journal Nature is, alas, behind a paywall. (This is a frequent problem in all online research--many of the best sources are less accessible to the general public than worse sources.) A straightforward Google Scholar search turns up many professional publications by Stanislas Dehaene on reading. I hope this helps answer your question about Dehaene's professional standing and previous publications. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 20:31, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

It was the Washington Post review which i read before making my comments above. If you have been following the recent international research papers regarding multiple neurological processes which are involved in the decoding of visual symbols to the sounds the represent, to meaningful communication, many of these processes happen independently and are not part of precise sequence, but rather in a more random cycle. And that perception and "the filling in" of information gaps based on experience or context happens more than was previously understood. The old theories, good in their day, which this book was based on are now being overturned, especially the promotion of phonics only approaches of teaching and the discrediting of whole language, when each teaching method addresses a different type of neurological information processing, both of which are integral parts of the reading process. dolfrog (talk) 21:20, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for identifying the review you read. It would be especially helpful to also identify the sources you are relying on for using the review as a basis for dismissing the book by Dehaene, one of the leading researchers on the neurology of dyslexia. (Once you read his book, you'll see how careful he has been in his research for many years.) I am especially curious about your statements about methods of reading instruction--where is the evidence about which methods work best? These issues are definitely of importance for the article, which like all Wikipedia articles ought to be based on reliable sources. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 14:35, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

There are many leading dyslexia researchers from many countries, (I have included some PubMed research paper collections of many leading dyslexia researchers on my dolfrog user page) and researching dyslexia various writing systems, which create different cognitive issues which cause the dyslexic symptom. Dyslexia is about having problem with a man made communication system the visual notation of speech. Each language has is own range of sound frequencies that it uses, added to which there are different forms of visual notations of speech in the form of different writing systems. Dehaene's research has only been concerned with a single writing system the Latin Alphabet writing system. There are at least two seperate areas of the brain involved in the reading process, the lexical (whole word) and the sub-lexic (phonic) areas of information processing, which have been identified since 2008. And again these areas of information processing have varying importance depending on the orthography of the writing system and language being used. It has only been in the last few years that researchers have been beginning to understand the multiple cognitive processes which are involved in the reading process, and much of this understanding has come about as a result of international research into dyslexia, and especially Alexia or acquired dyslexia resulting from stroke. dolfrog (talk) 02:49, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your further comments. When you write, "Dehaene's research has only been concerned with a single writing system the Latin Alphabet writing system," I have to strenuously disagree, because I have read his book. Dehaene has actually done more research in other writing systems than most authors on dyslexia, as anyone who reads his book will be plainly able to see. (I was very impressed with the quality of previous publications he cites about Chinese, my undergraduate major, most of which are unknown to most writers about dyslexia.)

I appreciate the links you have provided to many primary research articles on your user page, and looked up a couple of those over this weekend (which will be the basis for my next edit of this article, after a few more days of digesting what I read directly from the journal you kindly cited). On the same run to friendly local academic library, I checked out quite a few textbooks and treatises on dyslexia from various points of view, to update a bibliography on the subject I began keeping in the 1980s. I'll post the updated bibliography, which I will continue to update from time to time for years to come, to my user page soon, following your example.

I want to make clear that my interest in the issue of dyslexia comes precisely from knowing that "there are different forms of visual notations of speech in the form of different writing systems." That is the interest I had, as a student of Russian, Chinese, Greek, Hebrew, Japanese, and other languages, in the dyslexia literature. I have had the dismaying experience over the years of observing many authors about dyslexia making demonstrably false statements about reading based on what they think they know about other writing systems. Scholars of Chinese and Japanese (for example the late John DeFrancis and J. Marshall Unger) have been appalled at how often mistaken assumptions about how Chinese characters operate as a writing system have led to mistaken inferences about how human reading works. Stanislas Dehaene gets these facts right, and that is precisely why I heartily recommend his book to anyone who wants to better understand how reading operates neurologically for any human being, as a cultural innovation in the human species as a whole, and as a difficulty to be overcome by a learner with dyslexia. As they say in Chinese, 百聞不如一見, so reading Dehaene's book thoughtfully will be far more beneficial than hearing excuses for not reading it. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 03:25, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok when this book is freely available online via google books or another onlime publisher, I will read it. So until then I can only take your word for its valuable and enlightening contents I am dyslexic, and due to my own cognitive subtypes of dyslexia i need text to be presented as it is on this web site all multi-coloured which is how i cope with unfamiliar complex text. dolfrog (talk) 03:39, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Spelling question: "dyslexic" is much more attested for all parts of speech than "dyslectic."

I see that there is a variation in spelling in the article between "dyslexic" and "dyslectic." Checking dictionaries just now, especially the dictionaries that are most authoritative for editing professionally edited text in either the United States or Britain, I see that "dyslexic" is far and away the more attested spelling. This is also attested by Wiktionary, entry "dyslexic," which of courses has to follow the reliable sources. The Wikipedia Manual of Style guides editors to follow preferred spellings attested in major dictionaries when editing articles. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 19:59, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Renewing my question here, because there ought to be a source for spellings used on Wikipedia. So far, I don't see any evidence that any professionally edited book uses any spelling but "dyslexic" for a noun or an adjective related to the word "dyslexia," and Wikipedia always prefers the more commonplace spelling. Currently, most other Wikipedia articles that mention dyslexia include only the spelling "dyslexic" and not the spelling "dyslectic" at all. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 14:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree and made the change. A quick look at the journal references shows "dyslexics" to be prevalentLateg (talk) 12:41, 5 July 2010 (UTC).

Thanks for the spelling correction. While looking this up, to be sure what the preferred spelling is, I actually found a link via Google that laughs at this very Wikipedia article because of that spelling issue. It's probably particularly important to follow standard English spellings in an article about dyslexia. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 16:30, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I see that since you did the first pass of correcting spelling, Dolfrog kindly reverted a large section of the article that had been deleted some time before when I first began editing this article, and that brought back in some more misspellings. Because the reverted section included citations to particular articles and books, I was even able to check those articles and books as I went along, and to confirm that in all cases the spelling "dyslexic" was preferred by the authors writing in English as native speakers of English. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 03:44, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Dyslexia has a Greek origin. In Greek we call it "Δυσλεξία" while the person with that health issue is called "Δυσλεκτικός". I'm pretty sure that the reference to the person with dyslexia should be dyslectic. A quick search on English dictionaries though have shown that (wrongly in my opinion) the prevailing form of the word is dyslexic (although dyslectic is used and considered correct as well). The word in the "dyslectic" form is been used in hundreds of scientific articles as well http://scholar.google.gr/scholar?q=dyslectic&hl=en&btnG=%C1%ED%E1%E6%DE%F4%E7%F3%E7 (although again the dyslexic form prevails). Papagel (talk) 09:28, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I can read Greek too, but in English Wikipedia we follow English sources (dictionaries) for spelling, and they all agree that "dyslexic" is the preferred spelling. (Because the word was not coined for its current meaning in Greek, but rather in another language--which as I recall was EnglishGerman--from Greek roots, the Greek form simply illustrates the principle that each language spells in its own way, sometimes in disregard of other languages.) I hope this puts the matter to rest; I've done a lot of looking up to make sure that the spelling was well attested and correct as I've edited the article. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 11:30, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

language evolves, dyslexia is a new concept from the 1880s and the word dyslexia was created to define this newly recognised disability using Greek and Latin. There are also differences between the various English speaking cultures as to how many words are spelt, and even differences in meaning of some words between the different cultures. Dyslexic is the accepted form of spelling across most of the cultures who use the English language, and the many translation services which translate articles written in English, so to use any different spelling increase the margins of error in meaning when these articles are translated. dolfrog (talk) 12:33, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Good point that standardized spelling helps ease machine translation. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 12:41, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Cross-Linguistic Neuroimaging and Dyslexia: A Critical View

I have found the research paper "Cross-Linguistic Neuroimaging and Dyslexia: A Critical View" by Tarik Hadzibeganovica, Maurits van den Noortc, Peggy Bosche, Matjaz Perc, Rosalinde van Kralingen, Katrien Mondt and Max Coltheart and i will see how it fits into the dyslexia article. dolfrog (talk) 23:47, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

The research paper is a review research paper, and supports the information already in the article regarding cognitive subtypes of dyslexia, and that the cognitive skills required to perform the reading task differ according to differences in language and writing system orthography. I will add the paper as reference for the appropriate content dolfrog (talk) 00:12, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Dyslexia/Reorganization 2010 a new discussion

Hi All

I will also be posting a copy of the content below on the Talk page of the Alexia article.

The Wiki Project Dyslexia, was set up 2007 with the aim of improving dyslexia article on Wikipedia. The first step was seen as summerising the existing 2007 article, and creating a series of specialised sub articles to provide more detailed information with regard to the many specialised areas of dyslexia. Much of this has now been achieved, especially during 2009 and 2010. The dyslexia article now meets many more of the required standards as set out by Wikipedia, and has a more universal sourced content.

So we need to move on and set up some new goals for the Wiki Project Dyslexia. Currently the content of the dyslexia article only relates to developmental dyslexia, and not the wider range of topics which are also part of the inclusive definitions of dyslexia, such as Alexia (acquired dyslexia), the various theoretical "Models of Reading" which have resulted from various strands of dyslexia research.

To help us move on I edited some of the Wiki Project Dyslexia sub-articles in an attempt ot open a discussion as to the next steps to be taken by the Wiki Project Dyslexia with regard to ALL of the Wikipedia dyslexia related articles, some of which may still need to be identified. I have made some changes and additions to the Wiki Project Dyslexia articles,

• Wikipedia:WikiProject Dyslexia
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Dyslexia/Proposed organization
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Dyslexia/Dyslexia sub-articles
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Dyslexia/Reorganization 2010
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Dyslexia/Developmental dyslexia reorganisation
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Dyslexia/Alexia reorganization

There are more sub articles that go to make up the Wiki Project Dyslexia, but thye have not been recently revised or edited.

Please have a look at these proposals and add any thoughts or ideas you may have dolfrog (talk) 12:55, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Political correctness

Moved from "What about Strengths of Dyslexia?"

I changed bits of the first paragraph in order to make it more politcally correct. Basically I just changed it to a learning 'difference' instead of disorder and added other difficulties other than reading as it is a common misunderstanding that dyslexia can simply be defined as a 'reading disorder'. It is in fact a complicated learning difference that can affect almost all academic areas whether it comes to memorizing historical dates, mental math in algebra, or understanding maps, not only reading. 24.6.170.162 (talk) 22:36, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Let's be sure to use reliable sources for medicine-related articles before making substantive edits to this article. Medical accuracy is more important than political correctness, and any major statement about dyslexia in the article should be sourced to (preferably multiple) reliable secondary sources. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 16:01, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree with WeijiBaikeBianji and reverted the edits to reflect the citations. Political correctness only applies specific societies and is not global, Wikipedia is a global encyclopedia dolfrog (talk) 21:21, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

"Invitation to edit" trial

It has been proposed at Wikipedia talk:Invitation to edit that, because of the relatively high number of IP editors attracted to Dyslexia, it form part of a one month trial of a strategy aimed at improving the quality of new editors' contributions to health-related articles. It would involve placing this:

You can edit this page. Click here to find out how.

at the top of the article, linking to this mini-tutorial about MEDRS sourcing, citing and content, as well as basic procedures, and links to help pages. Your comments regarding the strategy are invited at the project talk page, and comments here, regarding the appropriateness of trialling it on this article, would be appreciated. Anthony (talk) 12:05, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

The list of articles for the trial is being reconsidered, in light of feedback from editors, and should be ready in a day or two. If you have any thoughts about the Invitation to edit proposal, they would be very welcome at the project talk page. Anthony (talk) 14:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/126/4/841.full (content was present in the article from 4 June 2007 to 15 October 2010). Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 20:38, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

English spelling reform link

The article mentions that:

"children with reading problems in one language might not have a reading problem in a language with a different orthography."

but, later on, it is stated that:

"There is no cure for dyslexia."

I think there are many linguists and many educators who believe that if English spelling was to be made more phonemic, rates of dyslexia in English countries (which are much higher than in phonemic languages) would be dramatically reduced. So, there is a cure for dyslexia! Fix the language, not kids!

(I am a teacher with 25 years of experience in teaching and with a degree in linguistics.)

Add Unlocking Dyslexia in Japanese from 5.July.2011 WSJ

Add Unlocking Dyslexia in Japanese excerpt example

Researchers have long observed that some dyslexics have an easier time with languages like Japanese and Chinese, in which characters represent complete words or ideas, than they do with languages like English, which use separate letters and sounds to form words. ... "There are very real differences in the brain's reading circuit for an alphabet as opposed to a language like Chinese," says Maryanne Wolf, a professor of child development and director of the Center for Reading and Language Research at Tufts University in Medford, Mass. Dyslexics "think visually. They analyze patterns," she says. Character-based languages are mastered through memorization, a skill that dyslexics tend to rely on more than do typical language learners, says Sally Shaywitz, co-director of the Yale Center for Dyslexia and Creativity in New Haven, Conn. And language characters are more like pictures than letters, which can be easier for many dyslexics to reproduce, she says. Dyslexia, the most common of all learning disabilities, is a neurologically based disorder that causes difficulties in language-related tasks. It occurs regardless of a person's intelligence or level of education. As many as one in five people have dyslexia to some degree, according to the Connecticut Longitudinal Study, a long-term study of about 450 school-age children that concluded in the early 2000s. A study of school-age children published last year in Psychological Science compared how good readers and dyslexic readers learn language. Using brain-imaging technology, researchers at the Yale Center found that when people with dyslexia read in English they rely on the same region of the brain as do readers of kanji, a character-based language in Japan. By contrast, a somewhat different region of the brain is used by good English readers as well as by children reading kana, another Japanese language, but one in which each character represents a sound, as in English.

Emphasis: Written Chinese is not necessarily connected to spoken dialects, such as the Beijing dialect of Mandarin Chinese. 97.87.29.188 (talk) 20:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I doubt this meets WP:MEDRS anyway. Dbrodbeck (talk) 21:05, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

"Anyway"? Why Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) comment? 97.87.29.188 (talk) 21:42, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

The Wall Street Journal is not a peer reviewed secondary source. Dbrodbeck (talk) 22:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

hi there — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.69.192.181 (talk) 23:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Adult Diagnosed Dyslexia

Hello All,

Please forgive the clumsiness. I am relatively new to this aspect of Wikipedia. Let me explain my situation. I am a doctoral student currently trying to complete an assignment in which we are to "improve" information about a subject in reading on the internet. My professor's rationale is that there is a lot of "bad" or "not helpful" information out there, and he wants us to pick a corner and improve it. I am deeply interested in Adult Diagnosed Dyslexia, or Dyslexia that is not officially diagnosed until adulthood. My interest stems from my personal experiences with this and I have been doing research for a couple of weeks now to discern information about those who may struggle with not receiving a diagnosis until later in life. I noticed the dyslexia page here has a section for signs and symptoms for "secondary school children and adults" that could use some more information; however, the information I have (and need to post for my project) is likely to be disproportionately large compared to the other sections and contain more than just "signs and symptoms." I am wondering if I might be able to make a separate "adult diagnosed dyslexia" article and link it to this page, or if adding another section to this article would be appropriate. Essentially, I am looking for feedback from those most involved in this community of dyslexic information on what and where the information on adult diagnosed dyslexia would be most helpful and useful?

I really appreciate the help. I want to contribute in useful ways, as I think this topic truly deserves space and care. Thank you again.

A.Kaseroff (talk) 18:14, 20 December 2011 (UTC) A.Kaseroff