Talk:En passant

Just curious

Just curious....I have a slight doubt over this application....does it only apply on the third or sixth ranks, or the seventh or second in addition? From the description, it seems only that if say, a black pawn is on square f4, for example. A white pawn on g2 moving to g4 would no doubt get captured. However, if the black pawn existed on square f3, and the white pawn on g2 moves to g4, can the black pawn capture it by moving to g2? I think its probably just the former example, but I Have some doubts. I just want this to be rectified, thanks! -- Natalinasmpf 11:08, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You're correct. It's the former example. Eric119 19:50, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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I've removed the following image from the article:

It's wrong - the white pawn should start on e5 (not e6) and capture on f6 (not f7). If somebody can remake the image so it shows this, it would certainly be a useful addition to the article. --Camembert

Fixed. TrbleClef 23:03, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The image on the page is now completely wrong, as the white pawn should never start on black's side of the board. STLocutus

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I remember hearing a different "english" name for the "En Passant" rule, esp in 80's home computer chess-programs, anybody got a clue?

• the only such english name I've heard is "in passing", which is what "En Passant" means. --Bubba73 05:27, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Rationale

...it was intended that time-honored defensive settings should not be invalidated by allowing pawns to sneak past opposing pawns.

I've read this somewhere, too, but does anyone know what "time-honored defensive settings" exactly were preserved? Have any of them survived the intervening few hundred years? A list of openings or variants that include an en passant would be useful here and might provide a little window into an opening that was popular long ago. Tempshill 17:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I think I'd also be interested to know what sort of "time-honored defensive settings" would be preserved. Because, honestly, for everything else, en passant is completely useless. The only time I've ever had the opportunity to use it was in casual play with someone who had never heard of it. And they didn't believe me. Marksman45 04:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, just looking at it logically, back in the 14th century, there were no real defined opening. Even basic and ancient openings like the Giuoco Piano were not well-explored. I think it likely that early chess games involved virtually none of the planning and studying done beforehand in modern chess, thus causing strange openings and a failure to exploit mistakes that might now be obvious. —Cuiviénen^T|C|@ on Thursday, 1 June 2006 at 20:26 UTC

I don't know if this is quite what you are talking about, but condider 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 (French Advance variation). Now Black's f-pawn can't slip past White's e-pawn with ... f5. I've had e.p. come up several times and once I blew a tournament game because I forgot about it. Bubba73 (talk), 22:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I prefer to think of it as it is: legalized cheating. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bear Eagleson (talk • contribs) 19:40, 30 September 2006} (UTC)

That's a contradiction in terms. Eric119 03:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

No, it's perfectly legal, and logical as well. I had e.p. used against me to foil some of my endgame plans before. Delirious prince 04:37, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

It means the old style defences against situations wher eyou could only jump one square with a pawn can still be counteracted as though you took one jump.It makes sense, it spends up game play openings can be set up quickly but also can still be defended against in the old ways.Wolfmankurd 19:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Other Uses

Normal Wikipedia styles doesn't allow multiple subjects in one article.

The best way to deal with this is to have a disambiguation page, and separate articles for "En Passant (Chess)", "En Passant (Medical), and "En Passant (Bridge)".

Alternately, if the chess subject is by far the most common use, there can be no disabiguation page, this article can remain just "En Passant", and an introductory paragraph at the top of this article can be added that states something like "This is an article about the chess move 'en passant. For the medical use of the term, see En Passant (Medical), for the use of the term in bridge, see En Passant (Bridge).

In both cases, stub articles should be created for the medical and bridge subject, with of course links to fuller articles (medical, bridge) which mention those subjects.

Only with pawns?

So let me get this straight, you can only capture other pawns with en passant? Thanks. --JDitto 05:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

That is correct. Baccyak4H (talk) 14:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

What about using your bishop to capture an opposing pawn? 68.218.16.254 04:16, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Nope. A piece (bishop, knight, etc) can NOT capture a pawn e.p. - it is a pawn's privilege. Delirious prince 04:37, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone come up with a rationale for why only pawns can perform e.p. captures? The history and reasoning I've seen seem to support other pieces' being allowed to capture, but of course that is not the rule. Any thoughts? Better, does anyone have any more specific historical information about this (for inclusion in the article)? See http://www.chessatwork.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=80386 for some discussion. Thanks. Holy 18:37, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Only pawns had a rule change applied to their movement which was intended to have only a narrow impact on the play of the game? In reality though, it doesn't matter; the rules are as they are. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 19:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

The e.p. rule was added when pawns got the option of moving two squares on their first move. This would allow them to pass by an opposing pawn on an adjacent file without being subject to capture. Other pieces could always move to block or capture the pawn after it moves two squares. I think that is the reason. Bubba73 ^{(Who's attacking me now?)}, 06:24, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

The truth is that when they were modifying the rules they could have just as easily allowed all pieces to capture a pawn in the style of en passant. It's very logical. Afterall if the point was to not allow a pawn to take too well of an advantage with its two-square move ability, then wouldn't a logical extension of this rule be to allow all pieces to capture by moving to the "passing square"? As an experienced chess player myself I can tell you there have been many times where I've intuitively (especially in blitz) wanted to capture an opposing pawn on its third rank after it's moved to its fourth rank as if en passant. Of course I know/knew that is only for pawns but it's very natural. I'm very curious if there was any debate or variants at the time that the rules were being modified to allow not just pawns to capture but all pieces. 24.111.116.220 (talk) 03:49, 28 December 2010 (UTC)Matt S.

This is how it is now, but till way back early '90s the any piece capture is perfectly valid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.18.192.21 (talk) 05:33, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Wrong. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 05:35, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I am sure of this, it was perfectly valid to do an any piece for en passant. May I know why you think you are right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.18.192.21 (talk) 06:58, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I am sure you are wrong. See the rulebooks. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 13:19, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Suggest you check when the rule was introduced, because a lot of us grew up with that being valid. Perhaps it changed in mid 80s? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.18.192.21 (talk • contribs)

No, before the year 1600. Suggest you read En passant#Historical context. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 13:19, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Clarification: the rule started before 1600, and it has always been with pawns only. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 20:05, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

It was limited to pawns in 1961 when I learned the game. If the rule were different even over a century ago, don't you think we'd see an example of a difference somewhere in the games of Anderssen, Morphy, etc.? WHPratt (talk) 13:28, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

The historical context talks about when en passant was introduced, not the "only pawns" case. For the record I may be wrong here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alokdube (talk • contribs)

It has never been applied to anything except pawns. It didn't change in the 1980s. The second paragraph of the historical context section also talks about the rationale of the rule, which applies to pawns only. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:25, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Well that is news to me because we used to get pooped as kids by our elders saying that it is perfectly valid. Note that this is ofcourse specific to an Indian context, though tournament rules were always "only pawn". -Alok 05:04, 1 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alokdube (talk • contribs)

Your elders didn't know the rules. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 19:12, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Well any engagement has rules, and frankly, once given the explanation that the pawn 2 move was introduced at a later stage, the logic seems right. Also note, chess did originate in India and Persia so perhaps I would give my elders more benefits on the rules. Either ways, there is no reason to discredit them for this, is there? -Alok 05:41, 6 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alokdube (talk • contribs)

I think maybe chess may be played with slightly different local rules in some parts of India. Although this was some time ago, Mir Sultan Khan was a fantastically strong (Western) chess player, but was said to be even better at Indian chess. Quale (talk) 03:07, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but Indian chess doesn't have the two-square pawn move or en passant. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 04:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

You are right, hence one interpretation of that "illustration" is that "pawn moves 2 (but the pawn can be taken any piece)" to speed up the game. Not "one cannot take it with nothing but a pawn". Back in the '80s there was no internet mate :) and "you talking to me?" was generally decided by who is bigger :)) -Alok 06:44, 8 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alokdube (talk • contribs)

There was no internet then but there were rulebooks and many books giving the rules of chess. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Rule book says "a pawn may take a piece" does that imply any other piece cant? The interpretation of that rule is manifold, which is exactly what was written here and why we are having this debate. For someone who has assumed that the original move was "1 step for pawn", he would go over the rules, agree that the rule was made to speed up the game, and hence the logic of any piece is inherent -Alok — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alokdube (talk • contribs) 06:28, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

If the rule says "a pawn may take a piece", that implies pawns can do, not pieces. I do not see any need for interpretation, the rule is crystal-clear and has always been. SyG (talk) 06:38, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Must be crystal clear, no wonder so many people posted here asking that question :) -Alok 06:47, 9 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alokdube (talk • contribs)

A pawn may take a piece. But that doesn't mean that a piece can take a pawn by en passant when the pawn moves two squares. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:12, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

removed section

I removed a section titles "Variations" which stated: In the Illustrated Book of Chess (available in England prior to 1978), it stated that the pawn can be captured "en passant" using any piece, although pawns are usually used. I cannot find any listing of such a book, and at any rate the rule is not standard, unless it is in some variant of chess. Bubba73 (talk), 18:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

See my above quote, it's most likely a chess variant. I've heard of such a variant before where pieces can also be captured e.p.Delirious prince 04:37, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

But I don't understand. The stated reasons behind the En passent move are to eliminate bypassing standard playing situations while speeding up the game, then why should only another pawn be able to take advantage of this? I am puzzled! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.221.230 (talk) 01:19, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that a vintage chess computer (from the 1970s) allowed this too. - Mark. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.232.150.252 (talk) 00:46, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Why can't I en passant here?

Black moved f7-f5+

I want to capture with e takes f6 but Yahoo! Chess wouldn't let me make the move! --ipodracer 07:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Because Yahoo! Chess apparently does not properly support en passant. Your proposed move is legal. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 13:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought you could only do it the move after the situation arises, as in if you want to use e.p. you must use it as soon as the opertunity arises. And only after they move their pawn two steps. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wolfmankurd (talk • contribs) 21:17, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

Wolfmankurd is correct. The move must be made the moment it becomes available, or the priviledge is lost.STLocutus

time limitation to e.p.?

is there a time limit, if you will,for using e.p.? My son was told at a tournament that he could only e.p. during the opening only. My husband is now wanting to use the move and my six year old is insisting that is not legal since it is "not the beginning of the game". any comments will be helpful! Krystyneo 02:23, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

There is no such limit. The six year old may have been confused by the following fact. While it's true that any time a pawn moves ahead two spaces in one turn, any enemy pawn to the immediate left or right of the square it lands on may capture en passant, it's also true that if no capture is made en passant on the move immediately following the two space jump, then the jumping pawn may no longer be captured en passant during the rest of the game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.195.90.176 (talk • contribs) 6:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

The only restriction to e.p. is that the opponent must perform the capture immediately after the opposing pawn moves two spaces, otherwise the right is lost. Note that whether a pawn can be captured e.p. also affects whether a position is considered the same, under the triple repetition rule. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Delirious prince (talk • contribs) 3:01, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

change to illustration

I was wondering if it might make the illustration clearer if there was a black pawn (or some other piece) on g6 in all three steps, just to make it more obvious where they are moving (particularly the last step, where you have only a single piece on the board now). It might be more confusing, but it might be something to try and see. -- Sfnhltb 19:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Another possibility in the same spirit would be to have a plausible game position in full. I suppose a super strict interpretation of no original research might argue against that, but I think it worth discussion at least. In lieu of that, it would be nice to use white and black arrows in the appropriate place, but I do not know if that is possible. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 01:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I see your point. I put an X on the square that the black pawn moves over, and to which the white pawn moves, to help make it clearer. If editors think that doesn't help, undo it and put a pawn on g6 or something. Bubba73 (talk), 23:55, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

That seems to work. I think I will tinker with the captions to make clearer the significance of that square. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 01:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Update. I updated the captions. Also added <br>s (linebreaks) so the vertical justification of the three boards and captions are the same. The drawback is there is a lot of whitespace in the latter two captions, especially the last. Comments? Baccyak4H (Yak!) 02:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that is good. Bubba73 (talk), 03:39, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it's better for new players that way. --JDitto 05:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The introductory chess book that I learned from as a 10-year old described the rule slightly differently: it said that, immediately after an opponent's pawn had made the double step, you were entitled to push it back one square and capture it there. The effect is exactly the same. Now, this invalidates the literal meaning of en passant, but may be more comprehensible to a beginner. Instead of an extraordinary capture that occupies one square and vacates two others and the blindfold "as if it had moved one square" concept, we have the exercise of a special privilege followed by a perfectly ordinary pawn capture. WHPratt (talk) 14:26, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, except that it would be a special privilege to move the opposing pawn back one square before capturing it. The rules don't allow that. But it is a useful idea. But I wouldn't want people to think they had the privilege of moving the pawn back one square and not capturing it.

For some reason, it is really hard for most kids to understand. I try to explain the reason for it, then the rule should be clear. Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 00:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

historical context section

This section is a great idea, but I have long thought its wording, especially the second paragraph, could use some improvement. I just made some not too large changes, but want to take a crack at a fuller rewrite. Let me post here a version (~17 July) before I started for reference.

The idea behind en passant was that when the two-square first move for pawns was introduced to speed up the opening phase, this should not allow pawns to sneak past opposing pawns. Although a novice introduced to en passant by an opponent in the course of a game will often react with incredulity at the apparent illogic of this rule, upon closer examination it makes sense. As its name implies, the conceit is that a pawn, which ordinarily moves only one square at a time, cannot move immediately to a square two rows ahead. It is thus vulnerable to being captured "in passing" through the first square to get to the second. The same principle can be seen in the rule that one cannot castle through check. Since a king ordinarily moves only one square at a time, he cannot move two squares at once, and thus renders himself vulnerable to being captured in passing through the first square. Since by the conventions of chess, a king is not allowed to put himself into check, castling through check is not allowed.

I am going to be bold, but wanted to give a heads-up and give some rationale for my actions. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 15:32, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean "concept" instead of "conceit"? I'm glad you took out the sentence you took out. Bubba73 (talk), 15:58, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

"conceit" has been there for some time, and when it was recently changed by someone else like your suggestion, someone reverted it back right away. But this usage is not one I am familiar with. I hope to rewrite that paragraph to make the word choice moot. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 16:07, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

According to Wiktionary, "conceit" can mean "something conceived, especially, a novel or fanciful idea". I guess that does make some sense then. However, I am still conceiving (sorry) of a way to get rid of it and improve the paragraph. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 16:39, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I think it is confusing here. I'd prefer "concept" or "idea". Bubba73 (talk), 16:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't object to either change. "convention", "suggestion" or "heuristic" also come to mind. There is, I think, a connotation in "conceit" of being stated or even invented for a particular purpose (like "contrivance" perhaps but weaker) that is not present in those words (except maybe "convention"). My gut reaction here is that the simplicity of your suggestions outweigh the subtleties of these others, if indeed that connotation is an advantage in the first place. Go for it. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 17:12, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe that conceit has the connotation you describe. Considering that you had just found out this meaning of the word that day (August 10), how would you have any sense of what the connotations are? (I don't mean to offend by this question; I simply don't understand). JudahH (talk) 23:38, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

(partial undent) For the records, I just changed it to "idea". Baccyak4H (Yak!) 17:55, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

As the person who originally wrote the paragraph with the word "conceit" let me say that the word choice was deliberate. The more applicable def. at Wiktionary is "In literature and poetry, a device of analogy consisting of an extended metaphor". Somewhat more specifically, answers.com has "A fanciful poetic image, especially an elaborate or exaggerated comparison." Conceit in the sense of a somewhat fanciful extended metaphor is a more precise word than the vague "idea" or "concept", and should not be confusing to anyone who knows the word.

That said, I don't feel the need to get into an edit war over a tiny detail like that, so unless someone responds here on the Talk Page, I won't change it back now.JudahH (talk) 23:38, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Since this is an encyclopedia, not literature or poetry, I also think "conceit" is a poor word choice here. I don't see any analogy or extended metaphor in the motivation for the en passant rule. The real problem is that the entire final paragraph of the section is uncited and not supported by the reference listed in the article, so it may be WP:OR original research. I removed it. If it is cited, it can be restored. Quale (talk) 09:44, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

The metaphor is that the pawn is an actual man that can move so much at a time. The extension is that where the pawn moves two squares, it is possible to kill it as it passes through the first. A conceit isn't limited to literature and poetry, as witness the def of the AHD at answers.com.

In any case, although the paragraph was uncited, at least part of it was evident from the word en passant itself: the pawn is taken "in passing".JudahH (talk) 12:56, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Importance rating of the article

In my opinion, this article is probably of "High" importance instead of "Mid" importance. It is a rule of chess. Yes, it is covered in rules of chess, but this article is read an average of about 400 times per day. The other special rules castling and promotion (chess) both have "high" importance, yet Castling is read only about 250 times per day and Promotion only about 100. Bubba73 (talk), 01:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. High traffic figures indicates people are viewing it and rules of chess are not enough for them. It's not easy to understand and it's hard to explain as well! SunCreator (talk) 01:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I know I'm selecting a particularly extreme example, but just look at the importance on this Talk:Decoy_(chess). SunCreator (talk) 09:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I think Decoy should not be High, and this one should be High. Bubba73 (talk), 13:49, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

See this for the stats on times read per day. Bubba73 (talk), 14:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Changed both. SunCreator (talk) 22:49, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

discussion on chess project

From Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chess#En passant:

Someone please look at the recent change to En passant and give an opinion. Bubba73 (talk), 00:36, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I reverted it, as you had done earlier. The change was was overly wordy and just made it worse. 24.177.121.141 (talk) 01:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

It strikes me that the lead is not a lead in the sense that it's not a summary of the page. The IP editors amendment seems factually correct but it's rather long winded. It would seem sensible to attempt to contact the IP editor directly via the talk page otherwise the same reverting may continue for some time. SunCreator (talk) 01:45, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I also thought that it was too redundant and wordy, and I commented that in my reverts. But I had already reverted twice today... Bubba73 (talk), 02:26, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

En passant unfair to other attacking pieces

By the current en passant rule, if a pawn hops over a square attacked by an opposing pawn, the opposing pawn may on the next move capture the pawn as if it had moved one square. So why doesn't en passant capture apply to other opposing pieces? What if a pawn hops over a square attacked by, say, an opposing knight? Doesn't that rob the knight of a legitimate attack? Shouldn't the knight also have the opportunity to capture the pawn on the next move as if it had moved one square? Mohanchous (talk) 00:43, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

What in the article would your desired clarifiations help improve? I am not being flippant -- I genuinely do not know what you wish to address or change in the current article. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 03:34, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I think, he may want his criticism included in the article, in which case, if you can find similar criticism published in a wp:reliable source, then go ahead in add it. although, I personally do not agree with your criticism.--UltraMagnus^speak 17:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:En passant/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sasata (talk) 14:29, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I'll be reviewing this article. Comments will follow later today. Sasata (talk) 14:29, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I have done a careful read through, and in my opinion, the article currently does not meet the criteria for GA. There was a lot of information about this move that was not covered by the article, and I don't believe the coverage is sufficiently broad. However, I've given a detailed list of what might be undertaken to improve the article, and I'll place the article on hold to allow time for the editor(s) to address the issues. Sasata (talk) 06:02, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

• The first paragraph (actually a sentence) of "Threefold repetition and stalemate" is really hard to parse, and I imagine it would hardly makes sense to someone who didn't already understand what it meant. Consider dividing the sentence into smaller more digestible fragments, or maybe given a couple of diagrams to illustrate. Also, a source is required; I imagine the ideal RS would be the relevant page in the FIDE handbook. Y Done
• this book here breaks down the legality of the e.p. capture into 4 "necessary conditions", perhaps a similar approach could be used in the article Y Done
• Consider adding a couple of descriptive words in front of Kenneth Harkness so we can know who he is without having to click another article to determine his authority... something like "Scottish organizer and arbiter" would be sufficient Y Done
• "The rules of chess were amended to make clear that the capture was mandatory in that instance (Winter 1999)." I think this is a pretty interesting and important aspect of this move's history, would it be possible to get a precise year on when this was clarified in the official rules? (this source might have more info) Y Done
• "In this line from the Petrov Defence" shouldn't that be Petrov's Defence? Y Done
• "... in this game between Gunnar Gundersen and A. H. Faul" Could we get the full name for A.H. so the name format can be the same? Y Done
• "Historically, allowing the en passant capture is one of the last major rule changes in European chess that occurred in the 14th to 15th century," Most other sources I've seen say 15th C, can this broadened date range be corroborated with another reference? Y Done (14th removed, however if it was during the time of Ruy López de Segura as in a reference you gave, it was in the 16th century. But my reference says before 1600.)
• second paragraph in "Historical context" needs a source Y Done
• ISBN for the Official Chess Handbook? Y Done
• some things I'd like to see to fill out the coverage:

• how often is en passant played at the GM level, and how frequently does the opportunity arise (someone has to have asked the same question, did a database search and published it somewhere)
• if a RS can be found, what's the record for e.p. captures in a single game? Y Done
• I imagine e.p. captures have been used as a theme for chess problems and compositions. Any cool examples? (hint, check here and here for a couple examples, and here for themes involving retrograde analysis) Y Done
• why is it called by its French name?

• check this for some more historical context
• check here and here for Winter's take on when the term might have been first used, also in a ChessBase article here
• any interesting anecdotes about the e.p. capture in relation to computer chess? (hint, check out here)
• for a laugh, check out this 1970s ad for a Chess Challenger computer in Popular Mechanics ... "Moves even include castling and en passant!"

I suspect that this was something that one could have exploited on early chess computers: it seems to me that a computer would PxP e.p. whenever possible, even if not the best move. This would be the programmer showing off that he included even this obscurity. WHPratt (talk) 18:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• check out this quote from an 1875 rule book:

  Formerly the Pawn was not permitted to take "en passant." The rule of taking "en passant" was first established in Spain, in the time of Lopez, and subsequently adopted in France, England, and Germany, as giving more animation to the game. It is not allowed in Italy.

  Y Done - added that Italy adopted it in 1880.
• this source says its the "rarest of moves", a fact which should certainly be added to the article

Several items done. The "rarest move" item may be too vague. For instance, underpromotion is less common. Bubba73 ^{(the argument clinic)}, 03:38, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that is unquestionably true - especially underpromotions to bishop, which are extremely rare, occurring in about .003% of games (see the statistics in underpromotion). Krakatoa (talk) 10:56, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Most e.p. in a game - a blog says that The Chess Companion by Chernov says that the record by one player in a game is 4, but I don't have the book and it is 50 years old so it may no longer be the record. Bubba73 ^{(the argument clinic)}, 05:18, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Irving Chernev wrote on page 270 of The Chess Companion that the most en passant captures in one game was by Louis Paulsen, who played four (out of six possible) in his game against Adolf Anderssen at Baden-Baden 1870. However, Edward Winter writes:

This comes from an "Interlude" feature (mixing spoof statistics with genuine ones) which had originally been published on the inside front cover of the July 1952 Chess Review. To all appearances, the en passant item was one of those intended to be taken seriously, but we have been unable to locate any such game.

Indeed, Chessgames.com has five games between Paulsen and Anderssen at Baden-Baden 1870, but none has four (or even two) en passant captures. Bruce Pandolfini parroted Chernev’s claim in one of his books, but also could find no such game when a reader questioned him.

Winter also notes that Christian Sanchez did a database search and found three games with three en passant captures - in no case were all by the same player. The earliest such game was A. Segal-K. Podzielny, Dortmund 1980. Edward Winter, Chess Facts and Fables, McFarland, 2006, pp. 98-99. ISBN 0-7864-2310-2. Surprisingly, Tim Krabbé on his Chess Records page does not address the subject. Krakatoa (talk) 11:00, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Here is the score of Alexandru Sorin Segal-Karl Heinz Podzielny, Dortmund 1980: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Nf3 O-O 9.Be2 Re8 10.Nd2 a6 11.a4 Nbd7 12.O-O Rb8 13.a5 Qc7 14.Qc2 b5 15.axb6 e.p. Nxb6 16.Bf3 c4 17.Kh1 Bh6 18.Ne2 Qc5 19.b4 cxb3 e.p. 20.Qxb3 Qc7 21.Qd3 Bd7 22.Rxa6 Nbxd5 23.Qd4 Bb5 24.Ra7 Qc5 25.Qxc5 dxc5 26.exd5 Bxe2 27.Bxe2 Rxe2 28.d6 Bf8 29.f5 gxf5 30.Ra6 Rd8 31.Nc4 Re4 32.Ne3 Rxd6 33.Ra8 f4 34.Nf5 Rd5 35.g4 fxg3 e.p. 36.Nxg3 Re8 37.Ra2 Bg7 38.Nf5 Kf8 39.Nxg7 Kxg7 40.Rg2+ Kf8 41.Bh6+ Ke7 42.Bg5 Rxg5 43.Rxg5 Rg8 44.Rxc5 Rg6 45.Rc8 Nd5 46.Ra8 Rf6 47.Rb1 Rf5 48.Rh8 h5 49.Re1+ Kf6 50.Rh6+ Kg7 51.Rd6 Kh7 52.Ra6 Nc7 53.Raa1 Ne6 54.Rf1 Rxf1+ 55.Rxf1 Kg6 56.Kg2 Nd4 57.Ra1 Kg5 58.Ra5+ f5 59.h4+ Kf4 60.Ra6 Ne2 61.Rg6 Nd4 62.Rg8 Nc6 63.Rg5 Ne5 64.Kh3 Nd3 65.Rxh5 Nf2+ 66.Kg2 Kg4 67.Rh8 Nd3 68.Rg8+ Kxh4 69.Kf3 Kh5 70.Re8 Kg5 1/2-1/2 Krakatoa (talk) 11:15, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

continued:

• the lead needs reorganizing, specifically, most of the new added info should be moved down into their appropriate sections. There shouldn't be anything in the lead that isn't in the body of the article. Also, I think the images of the two pawns should be removed (they don't do anything to aid reader comprehension), and the other image sequence can be moved up.
• Shouldn't the article title be italicized?
• I'd like to add a section on the use of en passant in chess composition, as mentioned above; will run it past here first before adding it though. I'll also email some friends with bigger chess libraries than me, they might be able to help find sources regarding e.p. frequency in GM games & other stats. Sasata (talk) 17:12, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Many chess articles have images of the pieces involved, for instance Promotion (chess), Rook and pawn versus rook endgame, and opposite-colored bishops endgame. I thought that article titles could not be italicized, but I could be wrong. The lead does need revision. Bubba73 ^{(the argument clinic)}, 18:18, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I used to think that too, but there are lots of articles with italicized titles, including Featured Articles - see WP:FA. Krakatoa (talk) 09:41, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I have italicized the title. I still think the two pawns should be removed... the fact that other articles have similar images suggests they haven't been through GAN yet and haven't been questioned :) Seriously, the second image shows the e.p. capture clearly, and it is blatantly obvious from that that only pawns are involved. Also, it mentions in the lead recording of the e.p. capture with notation, but this isn't anywhere else in the article. The lead needs to be a summary of the article's contents and should not have unique information in it. I think it might be worthwhile to use that information that Krakatoa found and incorporate it into the article somewhere. Still working on a section on e.p. in composition... I've been distracted. Sasata (talk) 00:32, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok how's this? Feel free to copy paste if you think it improves the article (and I won't be offended if you don't!). Sasata (talk) 04:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

In chess composition

	a	b	c	d	e	f	g	h
8									8
7									7
6									6
5									5
4									4
3									3
2									2
1									1
	a	b	c	d	e	f	g	h

Composition by Kenneth S. Howard, 1938. White checkmates in three moves.

En passant captures have often been used as a theme in chess compositions, as they "produce striking effects in the opening and closing of lines." (Howard 1961:106). In the 1938 composition by Kenneth S. Howard, the first move 1.d4 introduces the threat of 2.d5+ cxd5 3.Bxd5#. Black may capture the d4 pawn en passant in either of two ways:

• The capture 1...exd3 e.p. shifts the e4 pawn from the e- to the d-file, preventing an en passant capture after White plays 2.f4. To stop the threatened mate (3.f5#), Black may advance 2...f5, but this allows White to play 3.exf6 with checkmate due to the decisive e-file opening.
• If Black plays 1...cxd3 e.p., White exploits the newly-opened a2-g8 diagonal with 2.Qa2+ d5 3.cxd6 e.p.#.

• Howard, Kenneth S. (1961), How to Solve Chess Problems (2nd ed.), Dover, ISBN 978-0486207483, http://books.google.com/books?id=TAr0VrN-G3MC&lpg=PA106&dq=%22en%20passant%22%20chess&lr=&pg=PA106#v=onepage&q=%22en%20passant%22%20chess&f=false, retrieved 2009-11-30 

Your proposed section looks good to me, so I have added it. I also added the game I found with three en passant captures, as you had suggested. Krakatoa (talk) 12:27, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Update: Ok, I think we'll be good to go once the lead is fixed... currently, the article body does not actually explain the en passant rule, it's only in the lead; there shouldn't be anything in the lead that's not covered in the article body as well. Same thing for the notation explanation. Also, the new section on composition should be mentioned in the lead. I'm not a fan of the pawn pictures, but won't oppose promotion over it. Sasata (talk) 07:32, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

• OK, I've worked on the lead - moved some of that to a new section stating the rule. I also reworked the history section. Composition added to the lead. Notation moved from the lead to its own section. Bubba73 ^{(Who's attacking me now?)}, 04:57, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

All of my main concerns have been addressed, so I will promote the article. Congratulations on another GA for the Chess Project! Sasata (talk) 17:35, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   Clearly written, complies with MoS.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c(OR):

   Article has sufficient references, and they are reliable sources.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Covers the basics of the topic. Some suggestions for expansion may be found in the review.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

En passante

FIDE spells it 'En passante' SunCreator (talk) 01:32, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Elsewhere they spell it "en passant". The inconsistency is curious. I would have thought there was a typo, but "en passante" occurs twice on that page. Eric119 (talk) 03:32, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I asked a university French teacher and he says that passante is an error. Bubba73 ^{(the argument clinic)}, 16:03, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Misspelling it is. Thanks SunCreator (talk) 12:54, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Anecdote

Supposedly, some chess master was giving a simultaneous exhibition when one his opponents ordered a glass of wine, but wasn't at his board when it was delivered. The master seized the glass, drank it down, and moved on to the next board, explaining "My opponent left a glass of wine en prise, so I took it en passant."

I think I read that in George Koltanowski's column many years ago. Perhaps someone can pin it down. WHPratt (talk) 20:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I just checked: it's already in the article on J. H. Blackburne. Might be fun to repeat it here. WHPratt (talk) 20:26, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I think it can go hwere, but it needs a reference (otherwise it could be apocryphal) . Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 20:57, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm almost certain it's apocryphal! Not suggested as history, but rather as popular culture, putting two evocative chess terms to good use. The version with the simul makes more sense, as in those the master player truly plays en passant. WHPratt (talk) 03:30, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Notable obscurity?

The En passant rule seems to be notable due to the fact that few people know about it - it's one of the least-known rules of chess, at least to the general public. Anyone who knows anything at all about chess probably knows all of the basic moves of the pieces (up to and including castling, but not usually beyond that), but only people who know the game really well seem to be familiar with En passant. It actually seems like it's so well known for being not well known that the phrase "En passant" is often used to describe obscure and not-widely-known rules in other games and even in sports. I only have common knowledge to back this up though - can anyone find legitimate sources about other such uses in order to add a statement to that effect in the article? Lurlock (talk) 19:52, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

En passant is one of the basic rules of chess. It is in all (modern) lists of the rules. My daughter knew it when she was in the first grade. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 19:57, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Sure, it's in all of the standard rulebooks. This is not disputed. But it is one of the lesser-known rules, and very rarely put into practice, given that it can only be used under very specific circumstances, and only when the other player instigates it. (Most experienced chess players would probably not put themselves into a situation where their opponent could make use of the rule.) I've heard the term used in many non-chess contexts to refer to similarly under-used rules. Lurlock (talk) 03:06, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't have statistics at hand, but en passant isn't exactly rare. It isn't a "lesser-known rule", except perhaps among some novices. If a player doesn't know the rule, it is because they didn't read all of the list, since it is on every list of rules. It is part of the move of the pawn. I don't understand what you say about the opponent "instigating" the rule, since many applications of a capture are similarly the result of the opponent's move. I don't agree with your statement that most experienced players would not put themselves in such a position. I haven't heard the term used as you say. The term is even used in bridge (in a different context of course): Coup en passant. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 03:52, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I understand both of your points here. It IS a lesser known rule, I can attest to that having played many players to whom I've had to explain the rule growing up. Most people learn chess from a friend or family member, not by reading a rule book and en passant is not passed along a very high percentage of the time. Just look at many chess websites where serious players play. If you look at their FAQ section they'll often have a special section singling out and explaining en passant because so many people don't understand what's going on when their opponent plays e.p. against them. They think it's a glitch or a bug. However, I don't really think it's an article's place to comment on itself on the rarity of the knowledge it's giving. It should give the knowledge and not attempt to make the reader feel like what they're reading is common or uncommon knowledge. Afterall you probably won't see the sections explaining the most commonly known rules stating that they are the most commonly known rules. Secondly, saying that an experienced player wouldn't allow an e.p. position to occur is rubbish. Capturing en passant may result in a good, bad, or even position therefor it is a position that any strength of player could be happy to allow, depending on the situation. -Matt S.

24.111.116.220 (talk) 04:51, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

List of all possible En Passant moves

Editors let me know if you think this might have a place on this page. It's a list of all possible combinations of moves where an en passant capture can occur, starting with black capturing white en passant and then white capturing black.

• A white pawn from a2 to a4 followed by a black pawn from b4 to a3
• A white pawn from b2 to b4 followed by a black pawn from a4 or c4 to b3
• A white pawn from c2 to c4 followed by a black pawn from b4 or d4 to c3
• A white pawn from d2 to d4 followed by a black pawn from c4 or e4 to d3
• A white pawn from e2 to e4 followed by a black pawn from d4 or f4 to e3
• A white pawn from f2 to f4 followed by a black pawn from e4 or g4 to f3
• A white pawn from g2 to g4 followed by a black pawn from f4 or h4 to g3
• A white pawn from h2 to h4 followed by a black pawn from g4 to h3

• A black pawn from a7 to a5 followed by a white pawn from b5 to a6
• A black pawn from b7 to b5 followed by a white pawn from a5 or c5 to b6
• A black pawn from c7 to c5 followed by a white pawn from b5 or d5 to c6
• A black pawn from d7 to d5 followed by a white pawn from c5 or e5 to d6
• A black pawn from e7 to e5 followed by a white pawn from d5 or f5 to e6
• A black pawn from f7 to f5 followed by a white pawn from e5 or g5 to f6
• A black pawn from g7 to g5 followed by a white pawn from f5 or h5 to g6
• A black pawn from h7 to h5 followed by a white pawn from g5 to h6

I'm thinking it might be too much "just a list" without enough real context, however I could see how a beginner trying to find out exactly when/if en passant is legal would want to look at this list and just make sure it's there. Or perhaps to settle a debate. Maybe it can be converted to a grid? -Matt S. 24.111.116.220 (talk) 05:00, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Interesting idea, but I agree with your statement that it is "too much just a list". A beginner would not be really helped by that list because he would have difficulties with the notation. SyG (talk) 09:10, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Trivial information and would imagine you could not reference it. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 12:51, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I think that such a table (at the bottom of the article) could be worthwhile. An encyclopedia ought to be, well, encyclopedic. If something can be covered completely in a list of 16 items, who not do it? (I would add a column showing on what square the capturing pawn ends up.) If you were playing a game and made such a capture, only to have the opponent say "You can't do that!" wouldn't it be easier to show him or her the table and say, "There! Line 11. It's legal. Your move." As it is now, you'd have to tell your opponent to study this article for half an hour, and he probably still wouldn't believe you. WHPratt (talk) 13:27, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't think such a table should be added. The description of the move gives the same information much more concisely (and intuitively). It is better to have a description of the move of a queen than list every possible queen move. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 03:21, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I've never seen any other source list all the possible en passant captures, which strongly suggests to me that most people don't think that such a list is useful. My personal opinion is that it's pointless. It's easier to understand the rule and the idea behind it than memorize all the individual possibilities. Quale (talk) 03:23, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Now, exactly where did I suggest removing the definition and replacing it with the table? Or sugggest that said table should be memorized rather than learning the definition? Do I sense a straw man here?

You can figure out your income tax, given your income and the rate, with some math, but they put it in a table so that you won't have to.

If it's all really so concise and intuitive, why are there so many questions (see above) as to which e.p. captures are legal? I merely suggested that if a dispute arose, it could be useful to have the specific move validated in black and white. Yes, you can't find this anywhere else. Good chess players won't be consulting this, yet we shouldn't help beginners at the cost of a few square inches of text? This is what reference books (and sites) are for. WHPratt (talk) 12:22, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Most of the questions seem to be about whether pieces other than the pawn can do it and about it only being available at the first opportunity. These are addressed in the article. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 14:45, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

This discussion reminded me of when I learned chess (from a book). A description (definition), and example, guided my understanding perfectly. (A table of possible e.p.'s would have been, I'm sure, confusing and intimidating. So I'm of the view that a table is interesting, but totally counter-productive as far as education, especially for beginners.) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:26, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

My first chess set had a little booklet - it must have been in there. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 03:27, 12 June 2011 (UTC)