Talk:Epiousios

Good job

This article is a nice piece of work. L'omo del batocio (talk) 19:55, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Etymology

But what is the etymology? Epi- is a common suffix. --Error 23:03, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

As a suffix it's pretty rare ;). As a prefix it may mean "on, over, at, in, against". For me the translation "supersubstantial" is quite tempting, but it should be noted that epi does not denote separation. L'omo del batocio (talk) 10:42, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

other possibility

one can look at other language or place

• LXX : periousios (Ex 19, 6)
• matthew hebraic one quoted by Jérome mahar

also :

• (Jn 6, 27)
• (Jn 6, 32-33) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.67.188.234 (talk) 17:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

Removed

this is POV...

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The Greek term 'homo-ousios' is very exact, meaning "consubstantialis" "of the same substance" (see Council of Nicea, 325 AD). Thus 'ousios' can be rendered as "substance" (or "nature", or "essence"). 'Epi' we know means "super" (think of epicenter), coming from a verb which means "to be added, to be above". Thus 'epi-ousios' means 'super-substantial'. This is how St Jerome renders it in the Vulgate: 'supersubstantialem'. To one who believes in Jesus Christ's real, substantial presence in the Holy Eucharist (see Catechism of the Catholic Church 1374) such a translation makes complete sense. Jesus Christ is substantially present in the Blessed Sacrament in a supernatural way, and He teaches us to pray to receive Him every single day in this manner. This does not negate the prayer for our temporal needs (for natural bread) but raises it by petitioning for our supernatural needs. And now the world has reached an age where the Church encourages and is able to provide for all the faithful to participate in Holy Communion not at Easter only, nor just on Sundays only, but every day: daily.

Translating the word 'epiousios' is a great difficulty for those who do not want to admit the Real Presence, but--thanks to the work of giants in former generations--'supersubstantial' is a clear and precise translation for those Catholics and Orthodox who believe. Maybe it is time Catholics used 'supersubstantial' in the liturgy? It might sound like a mouthful, but that would reinforce the point!

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...so I've expunged it. jnestorius^(talk) 22:46, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Hapax legomenon?

Actually 'epiousios' is used in everyday conversations here in Greece, does it still qualify as an 'hapax legomenon'? To my knowledge it means something between 'daily' and 'the necessary', or 'the daily necessary'. Also, 'epi' isn't equivalent to the english 'super', but to 'on' or 'above'. The word for 'super' is 'yper', like in 'yperanthropos' (υπεράνθρωπος), 'superman', 'yperthetikos' (υπερθετικός), 'superlative' (case). 'Epi' does not come from a verb, it's a preposition, and 'epicenter' means 'over the center', 'on the spot'. Compare to 'hypocenter' (although such a word may not exist in english), which means 'below the center/spot'. --Apost18pt (talk) 12:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Very interesting points, thanks for making them. I'm not sure that the everyday use of epiousios disqualifies it from being a hapax legomenon as long as its use in the Lord's Prayer is its earliest well understood use. The reason for this is that we cannot be sure but that its meaning might have changed very early on. You make a good point about the meaning of the English prefix "super-", however, in Latin, super- means "on" or "above", so I think it makes a fine calque for epi-. Maybe the text should be improved so that it is clear that it is the Latin super-, not the English, that is referred to? Rwflammang (talk) 13:53, 9 September 2009 (UTC)