Talk:Flag of India

Material of the flag

I know that technically, the flag is only supposed to be made of a certain material (namely khadi) but from personal experience, I can tell you that none of the Indian flags I've seen in public places have been made of khadi (I have some particularly patriotic friends of Indian origin, and the flags in their homes do appear to be made of the stuff, hence the qualifier about "public places"). I live in the United States, where flag manufacturers probably don't know or don't care about the Indian government's regulations, and I think it worth mentioning that the guidelines are only enforceable within the borders of the Republic of India, so flags made outside of India are frequently not made according to official rules. Unfortunately, my personal experience is not a "verifiable source" and I cannot send flags over the Internet, so I'm wondering about how we might get this valuable information onto the article without violating WP policy. Lockesdonkey (talk) 23:24, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Article issues

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Given that the article is now at FAR, time to document the problems and address them soon.

• History section
  • A good portion appears to be synthesis as some of the entries aren't really discussed by sources in the context of the Indian flag.
  • Notability/relevance (undue in this context) of some of the flags (Ghadar party is one, many aren't included in the List of Indian flags, but that doesn't really prove anything)
• Proper flag protocol
  • A good bit of unsourced text
  • Copy-editing required
• Layout
  • Too many images, distracting from the text

Will add more soon, and then start tackling. -SpacemanSpiff 04:40, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Agree on the the images being extremely distracting. i couldnt read the text continuously for more than a few seconds without glancing around.

• The history section can be moved into a table with two columns with smaller images. The images should be on one side - either right or left. sorting can be according to timeline. Excess text can be moved to a new article on history and evolution of the flag
• Two tables for two sections - the official (british raj/company) flags and the various independence movements' flags. The company had at least one more flag before 1800s [1]
• The flag protocol can be trimmed and the "legalese" text moved into Flag Code of India
• Infobox needs to be added
• Lead section can be made to a single para. the designer/history/code/material should be moved to the respective sections. I
• images in lead section have to be removed (replaced with infobox)--Sodabottle (talk) 06:36, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Heraldic description?

Party per fess Saffron and Vert on a fess Argent a "Chakra" Azure.

Do we have a source for this? Blazon provides some guidelines but itself suffers from a lack of sourcing. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 18:03, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

No, so I removed it. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 06:55, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

BIS Standards

For those in India, would any of you like to get a PDF copy of the following standards:

• IS 1 : 1968 Specification for the National Flag of India (Cotton Khadi)
• IS 300 : 1968 Specification for the national flag of India (silk khadi)
• IS 400 : 1968 Specification for the National Flag of India (Wool Khadi)

I would really appreciate it, so I can help you with this article. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 20:59, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Not in India, but as with a good part of the article, even on this recentism has crept in. The correct name of the org when the standards were devised was "Indian Standards Institution" (became BIS sometime in the 1990s if I'm not mistaken)and the code would have been ISI or IS. Searching for that might give you some success. I haven't been able to unearth much in terms of (good quality) online sources so far. cheers. -SpacemanSpiff 21:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

We can talk about the naming later. What I want to do is something like Flag_of_Japan#Design. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 21:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps I wasn't clear before, but what I meant was searching for some combination of "Indian Standards Institute" and "Indian Flag" etc might help you better than BIS linked searches. Sorry for the confusion, there's more than just the BIS naming issue to pick on right now :) I haven't had much luck in finding the docs myself, the BIS page is extremely unhelpful http://bis.org.in/bis/main.asp]. cheers. -SpacemanSpiff 21:23, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I been looking for a while, the only thing I know is that the CD rom version has been taken offline, all PDF removed and this standard is 40 USD. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 21:39, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I finally got "IS 1 : 1968 Specification for the National Flag of India (Cotton Khadi)" User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 17:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Suggested structure for the article

I'm proposing a complete rewrite of the article using the following strucute:

• Lead
• Design and symbolism
• History
  • Flag movement
  • Flag selection
  • Other flags used (summary style with a link to a split off article where the current content goes)
• Flag code
  • Protocol
  • Manufacturing process
• Notes
  • References
• External links

Some references that I have been able to find so far:

• Available online

1. Roy, Srirupa (2007). Beyond belief : India and the politics of postcolonial nationalism Author: Srirupa Roy. Duke University Press. pp. 6. ISBN 9780822340010. OCLC 73742614. 
2. Jacobsohn, Gary J. (2003). The wheel of law: India's secularism in comparative constitutional context. Princeton University Press. pp. 5-7, 317. ISBN 9780691122533. OCLC 49513027. http://books.google.com/books?id=6Ceoc1i1KF8C&lpg=PA5&dq=%22Indian%20flag%22&lr=&pg=PA5#v=onepage&q=%22Indian%20flag%22&f=false. 
3. The Indian National Flag as a Site of Daily Plebiscite
4. Roy, Srirupa (August 2006). "“A Symbol of Freedom”: The Indian Flag and the Transformations of Nationalism, 1906–". Journal of Asian Studies 65 (3). ISSN 0021-9118. http://www.umass.edu/sbs/pdf/srirupa_roy_article.pdf. 

• Not available online

1. The Indian flag; origin, adoption, description, use.. India. Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. OCLC 14389783. 
2. Virmani, Arundhati (August 1999). "National Symbols under Colonial Domination: The Nationalization of the Indian Flag, March-August 1923". Past & Present (Oxford University Press on behalf of The Past and Present Society) (164): 169-197. http://www.jstor.org/stable/651278. 

Comments/opinions etc etc please. cheers -SpacemanSpiff 06:46, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

That works. I use that similar format for the Japanese, Chinese and Singaporean flag articles that are either going for FAC or are Good Articles. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 07:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. Also available online are a couple of relevant legislations - the Flag Code of India, 2002; and the Prevention of Insults to National Honour Act, 1971. I also have access to the second (JSTOR) article that is unavailable online. Newspaper articles regarding the manufacturing process are also available online. If we have a consensus, let's start! I'm ready to pitch in with what I can. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 09:06, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

I still wish I can get my hands on that standard. I do notice some Indian Government websites give out suggested colors for the flag, so I will try and figure those out. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 18:13, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Not giving up my search for the standards document, but let's start the restructuring now and hopefully, we'll find this soon. cheers. -SpacemanSpiff 01:16, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Sure. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:01, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Naval flags

They are all uploaded to Wikipedia now. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 00:05, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

some FAR notes

Spiff, I'm making notes here, since the "leave comments" link goes to an archive. Sorry, I'll be doing this piecemeal (again...), and can't guarantee I'll make much progress: the semester is about to start and I'm very scatter-brained, comme d'habitude.

1. Rephrase "the British" in the lead--it's not parallel with "India," and it's a bit vague (in my opinion).
2. The last sentence of the first paragraph of the lead comes sort of out of nowhere. Rephrase it (so there's a transition between it and the previous sentence(s)/thoughts), or place it somewhere else. Actually, you can move it into the first sentence of the second paragraph, so that "national flag," which opens that sentence, sounds less repetitive.
3. Something similar applies to the last sentence of the second paragraph of the lead: it has nothing to do with the design and colors. Move it into the next paragraph, which talks about function, display, regulations. Drmies (talk) 17:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Suspect claims

I am skeptical of some statements in the article, even though they are apparently sourced (I haven't checked the sources myself):

• The lede says, "The flag, by law, is to be made of khadi". Does that mean that paper and other cloth flags are illegal ? That is a redflag claim, and I rather suspect that the original statement is missing some qualifiers. (perhaps the law differentiates between "a flag" and a representation of the flag?)
• Some of the claims Manufacturing process are dubious, and others surely false. Among the former, "there are fewer than a dozen weavers in India professing this skill."; and among the latter claims about the "exact" thread count and weight requirements.

Can the claims be checked against the cited sources and the credibility of the sources be checked too ? Abecedare (talk) 16:14, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Responses:

• "The flag, by law..": This refers to the flag per se, I'm not sure how to exclude representations and adaptations, e.g. Even paper flags for decorative purposes and banners are not covered by "the flag" qualifier.
• "fewer than a dozen": This was carried over from an earlier version, at present there are 16. I'll make that change
• Thread count and weight requirements: We haven't been able to get hold of the BIS document, but thread count is regulated. I'll replace the rediff ref with The Hindu one.
• "supercilious": The word replaced "Reducing India's identity to a rather common symbolic element - a star - appeared to be slightly derisory to him" from a passage focused on the inappropriateness of the (then) current flag and the reason to choose something better.

I'll address the other bits once within the article after reading through in a bit. —SpacemanSpiff 17:49, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Some other changes I've done based on the comments/inline tags:

• Removed designer from the infobox as the amount of text to be added to clarify that is too much for the infobox
• Bande Mataram flag in Congress 1906 (when tag removed)
• Emblem of India clarification; removed the link as the emblem was officially adopted in 1950
• Original flag code vs 2002 flag code; unfortunately this is one of the few laws that doesn't have a year associated with it in the original form, so I've clarified at the start that original means the "Flag Code - India" (the precursor to Flag code, 2002)

Will complete the rest soon. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 01:37, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Update: I've restored the designer's name to the infobox, and incorporated a clarification in the footnotes. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 10:02, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Connaught Ranger Mutiny

On a recent edition of Talking History on Irish Radio Station Newstalk it was stated that one of the origins of the colour scheme if the Indian Flag was the raising of the Irish Tri-colour in Jalandhar during the Mutiny of the Connaught Rangers in 1920.

--Gramscis cousin^Talk_Stalk 13:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

I haven't come across that in any of the print sources that I've accessed, only the Gandhian selection bit that's been included in the article. Did they give a deeper explanation? Did they reference any books that we could access? —SpacemanSpiff 14:02, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

please add a wikilink

Can somebody please add the interwikilink to Gandhi Jayanti where its mentioned in this article? Thanks. -87.162.73.146 (talk) 09:47, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia, is the free encyclopedia which anyone can edit. Go ahead, click on edit and add two square brackets around the word/words that need to be linked. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 14:28, 19 January 2012 (UTC)