Talk:Football hooliganism

Original Research

In the 'Bulgaria' section.

This: "Football Hooliganism in Bulgaria , is typical of everyday life for the public. In Bulgaria fights happen regularly on match days sometimes even on the field as well as off it. The main teams that are in the trouble are CSKA Sofia and their rivals Levski Sofia, Lokomotiv Plovdiv and their rivals Botev Plovdiv. Many of the teams are also linked to right wing ultra-nationalist racist groups. Fascist and Nazi symbols can be very easily seen in Bulgarian modern football."

is patently biased, unsourced, and original research. I petition for its removal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.180.125.253 (talk) 01:26, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Addition to weaponry

I'm going to note the occasional use of firearms, as I feel the violence is being downplayed in the first paragraph. Notably, I'll be referencing Carlo Picornie's death, which I'll also specify under the "Netherlands" header. 82.95.25.120 (talk) 13:11, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

My bad. While there are plenty of recorded instances of firearms being used (should I reference those?) Carlo Picornie was killed using baseball bats. I've reverted the Netherlands section, but left the mention of pistols in the used weaponry in the initial paragraph. 82.95.25.120 (talk) 13:16, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Existence of that page ?

Existence and meaning of such page is questionable and by any moral values not approved !

I mean this page just as such acts of violence doesn't have no moral values and as such it shouldn't be written about it in a open-accessible open-content encyclopaedia !

Other words say you even encouraging people that do think like that to continue to think like that and making them look higher in eyes of their friends ! And that is what will again move them to a violence !

I want to say that stopping violence is not done by talking about it specially publicly !

And this page is a list of gruesome crime that look like a grocery shopping list ! And that is disregardful to be in encyclopaedia !

I mean why you do not make a one page with list of a one random soldier in Vietnam kills ?

There is no need of existent of such material in any encyclopaedia !

There are other sites for such data gathering ! And usage by scientific people is not enough to approve existence of such page in encyclopaedia !

Cause most people that will look that page aren't a scientist that need such data but just plain people that are interested in subject of crime , violence , vandalism !

That are mostly people that do crime and live from crime !

And that are the reasons why maybe Wikipedia should shut this page down or maybe be shuted down if doesn't respect some moral levels of normal human beings !

I mean do we write in encyclopaedia ! What is definition of encyclopaedia ! Treasure of human knowledge ? And is vandalism and such things such doings ? Is that something that goes into part that we call knowledge !?

NOOOOOO!

Then again that page is freely and easy accessible and look like a list of kills !

Did you play games !? It look like a list of murdered people by idiots that love to talk about it ! And you even give them a more resources to be heard about it with such page ! And that is something that is not morally aloudable ! And that is grouse and plus there is nowhere on that page a material that say that such things or bad and not aluadable ! That they are not aloud and not good and there is no moral questioning and judging of such acts on that page !

Existence of such page is totally morally questionable even more the page has links other gruesome lists !

We could made that page look correct by erasing a data that is concerned about kills in countries and about a football fan groups !

Or we could make he a few pages from that page with content regarding continents and countries ! Then page titled Football Hooliganism would only have a bit of general information about topic and about its existence with a nice and sharp moral judgement of existence of the same !

Other pages would be about existence of violent football fans groups in different countries and they would linked separately to page Football Hooliganism ! And each of them including page Football Hooliganism would and will be moderated ! Heavily moderated and page Football hooliganism should be even maybe looked down to prevent edits by people that just want to add some new hooliganism !

Again I say there is other sites for such things ! And it shouldn't be written about it in encyclopedia !

I call anyone that is concerned about it and about a content of wikipedia to talk about it !? And that specially include anyone that work as a moderator on wikipedia to question moral values about existence of that page!

This page discussion is a call to mind to people that arrange this page ! Again I say that such page shouldn't exist and shouldn't be in any open organisation easy accessible page like wikipedia is !

Content of Wikipedia pages heh sometimes need to be examined ! On some topics ! Just because its content is edited by anyone it doesn't mean that should look chaotic and have no reasonable content structure ! Beside there is a question of moral approval of existing of such page in encyclopedia and that is the question I make and say here ! Any social network also sometime have content from Wikipedia that include facebook which is a bad network that using a content from wikipedia without questioning its moral values !

But then again anything that any user write on facebook have some sort of moral questioning so if someone would made content that is not desirable as a behavior just like that page is they page would be erased !

Encyclopaedia is important to have a content that have moral value in it ! not just mumbling about things that normal people if wouldn't run on in some point on it wouldn't care ! And also most of people doesn't care about such things !

Clear example how some idiot wrote in that encyclopaedia maybe even some Serbian idiot football fan about a lynching and kill of Brice Taton in Serbia !

I'm about to dismantle this page into a smaller pieces as I wrote if someone have some other reason why it should write it here ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.177.72.123 (talk) 16:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Your passionate and repetitive plea for censorship is certainly not in the spirit of Wikipedia.

On the other hand, I don't much like this article either. It is a nation-by-nation catalog of hooligan firms. The Portugal without evidence that teams sponsor (or "have") hooligan firms, criminal gangs really, a claim that might be considered libelous. Other parts of the article lack references too. Never mind the lack of references, there are not even dates for some incidents referred to. This is should be an evergreen article. Words like "recently" don't belong in an encyclopedia.

There is little synthesis or sociological or psychological analysis of the phenomenon. Are there any studies of sports hooliganism that might shed light on this phenomenon? There are passing references to white supremacist and other extreme groups that perform their violence under the rubric of being sports fans. What is really behind most of the violence? Is it ritualized conflict? Does violence refer to property damage, or injury to persons? After reading the whole article, I feel no more enlightened than after the first few paragraphs.

There is no "morality" in covering up or censoring information about criminal behavior. The morality -- if that is what you seek in an encyclopedia -- is to document research about the causes and possible solutions to a serious social problem.

Why does Poland get its own football hooligan page?

One other question. Have parts of this discussion page been deleted? I ask, because the neutrality of the Portugal section has been disputed, but there is nothing on this discussion page about that. Waltezell (talk) 12:35, 6 September 2011 (UTC

Australia section

As an Australian, I should like to note two things which may be worth adding. Firstly, whilst the A-league has indeed not seen major clashes, the lower state-level competitions have seen some serious nastiness. To a large degree this is a legacy of ethnic-based club structures. The A-League's predecessor, the National Soccer League DID have serious hooliganism issues.

Note that there is NO crowd segregation at A-League games. Supporters of rival teams are allowed to mingle freely and sit side by side. (Unthinkable in much of the world!).

Note this incident which appears extremely serious and ugly.

Much of the conflict in the A-league has centered on discord between the clubs and their "active support" groups, not between the support groups themselves. See Melbourne_Victory_FC#Support, for example. There was apparently some kind of "peace deal" negotiated this year between the parties, but I don't know the details. 203.45.95.236 (talk) 12:10, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Portugal section

In the 'Portugal' section.

The information provided not only has no references, but no dates as well. Beyond original research it's clearly biased against the FC Porto club. It also has no mention of the worst Portuguese Football incident: when a Benfica supporter killed a rival Sporting supporter with a pyrotechnic device.

The use of the word "recent" in an encyclopedia is also debatable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.246.173.101 (talk) 21:57, 1 February 2012 (UTC)