Talk:Football records in England

Liverpool or Manchester United?

This may be biased since I am a United fan, but the you could argue all day between these two clubs and not get anywhere, but for me, Manchester United are the most consistent team, simply because Liverpool have never won the premier league, yet, United have always come in the top three since it started and have won 12 out of a possible 19! Now that has got to be something against the two extra champions league titles Liverpool have won. Just saying... 80.7.242.108 (talk) 13:49, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Relax it overall 19 > 18 titles. Since begining in 1888 of the league footaball. 157.157.39.241 (talk) 18:48, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Total titles

As noted above, ranking the clubs as "most succussful" based on the number of titles is suspect - the measure of success is subjective, and would take into consideration the relative prestige of each competition and possibly other factors. Obviously we are not in a position to make such judgements and any attempt to find a reliable means of quantifying success would likely yield various contradictory sources. Therefore I've changed the section title to give a more neutral description of what the table shows - titles won. I would suggest the default sorting method be reconsidered, with no weighting of the individual competitions (i.e. list equally ranked teams alphabetically), but for now I've just restored the existing method (which had been fiddled with). AJCham 23:34, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Well the change was reverted without addressing the above points, but I've informed the editor of this post and hopefully they'll chime in. It seems another editor did agree with the above and attempted to reinstate the change, but they too were reverted. I've really no interest in edit-warring about this, but would appreciate some feedback on this suggestion (incidentally, I see the default ordering was tampererd with again, so would also reiterate the suggestion of agreeing to default to alphabetical when the numbers are equal). AJCham 00:23, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi - I agree with you here. Wikipedia is not about interpreting who is the 'most successful'. By listing this as most titles, with all competitions included, we can leave it up to readers to decide which team is the most successful. Although I'm willing to hear other arguments, I have no qualms reverting someone who does not respond to comments on talk pages. --Pretty Green (talk) 09:00, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for making this change. I made similar edits to the Manchester United F.C. and Liverpool F.C. articles and noticed they both linked to a section that no longer existed. Mosmof (talk) 18:59, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Copied from above, originally posted by 196.210.213.248 :

To Pretty Green: It has always been "Most successful clubs overall" why are you changing it to total titles won? Is it because you would like you team higher on the log?

Yes, it's because my team, Barrow AFC (check the edit history) will rise higher and higher upon changing the table --Pretty Green (talk) 08:08, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Anon, please read the discussion and understand that this change (instigated by me) was made with careful consideration per my reasoning above, and two editors have joined the discussion in agreement. Neither yourself nor anyone else has put forward a sensible rationale for retaining the previous section heading - just allegations of bias and bad faith directed at both me and Pretty Green. At the time of my original edit the table defaulted to sorting by total titles - I didn't dispute this, and merely aimed for the title to reflect what was shown. I now see that the established ordering was to sort by league championships first, which frankly doesn't fit either title, and possibly makes the designation of "Most Successful" even more suspect. AJCham 21:12, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Split

Hello, I've suggested splitting this article. I think this article should be retained for overall records ie all football since 1871. We're not Sky, so I don't see why we should be giving undue prominence to football since 1992. However, I think the Premier League statistics are important content - but they deserve their own article. Therefore, I suggest splitting the section Football records in England#FA Premier League – Since 1992–93 season into a new article titled Premier League statistics and records. I'd also suggest merging All-time FA Premier League table into that article, and making it a new parent article for all the articles on the 'statistics and records' section of the Premier League template. Pretty Green (talk) 08:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

• Strongly agree, makes complete sense to me. Feudonym (talk) 08:15, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Well there's been no complaints anywhere so I'll be bold and get on with it! --Pretty Green (talk) 09:37, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

FA Cup records

I may be missing/misunderstanding something, but aren't these 2 lines contradictory?

• Highest FA Cup attendance (of all time): 121,919 (Aston Villa v. Sunderland, Final at Crystal Palace, 19 April 1913)
• Highest attendance at Wembley: 126,047 (Bolton Wanderers v. West Ham United, Final, 28 April 1923)

If that Wembley figure is correct, surely that#s also the biggest of all time?109.145.250.164 (talk) 01:02, 18 February 2012 (UTC)