Talk:François Duvalier

RfC: Does material on Papa Doc's death and succession belong in the Section Death and Succession?

A Section entitled Death and succession. I submitted the following material to what is a rather sparse section:

On April 26, 1971, the N.Y. Times carried an extensive report on a news conference given by U.S. Ambassador Clinton E. Knox in Port-au-Prince in which he "denied the report that he had been at the presidential palace the night Dr. Duvalier died." American Embassy officials later confirmed that Mr. Knox was indeed called to the palace the night of Duvalier's death in order that he might be impressed by the orderly transfer of power and give the assurance of his presence to the new government. American officials weren't able to confirm the allegation in the Times that Mr. Knox wore at Papa Doc's funeral a Duvalierist lapel pin.

The transfer of power after the death of a dictator is usually problematical and frequently leads to domestic instability as competing factions vie for power. That's why, it seems, that someone created the section on Papa Doc's death to include information on the succession. The added materials explained, with solid documentation citing both the NYTimes and a former US Embassy official, that the United States government became directly involved in the succession of Papa Doc.

To place the material in another section, such as foreign relations, seems odd when it deals directly with the topic of succession.

JMartens (talk) 21:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Because it's not actually about the death and succession of Duvalier, it's about a foreign ambassador who MAY have observed that death so that his country would know about peaceful succession and be more likely to give aid to that country.

Furthermore, the truth of that whole section is debatable. The actual reference says that "Mr. Knox 'denied the report that he had been at the presidential palace the night Dr. Duvalier died'" but "My information, from an Embassy friend in a good position to know, is that Mr. Knox was indeed called to the palace the night of Duvalier's death." So it's an anonymous source, who may have spoken to George P. Clark, who then told the story to Louisville International Relations Club in 1971. Come to think of it, the whole thing is a little fishy and should maybe just come out.Flyte35 (talk) 23:45, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Have removed, given the sourcing.Flyte35 (talk) 17:38, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Untitled

You guys should check out reference #2, the link goes to a forum that has nothing to do with the article

Death Squads

Umm... comparing this article to, say, Idi Amin, it seems like quite a whitewash, even considering NPOV. The fact that he created a voodoo death squad that worshiped him as a deity should probably be front and center. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.12.25.92 (talk) 04:15, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree 201.208.1.34 (talk) 08:48, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Papa Doc and America

The article seems to omit any notice of contact of Papa Doc with americans. As I know he served in american army as a member of sanitary mission from 1932 till 1934 and from 1940 till 1944. Also he was studying in Michigan state university from 1944 till ?. Any confirmations/objections to this information?

Is there a source? This article seems not to have any citations or references, a basic bio would be a good start. Stan 00:00, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The biography I have cited is printed in russian [1]. The information about Duvalier having attended Michigan University and about his work as an assistant of US medical mission 1943-1946 has some confirmation through Googling ([2] and [3]). May be some further investigation is necessary.--Begemotv2718 02:25, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC) I can translate this russian source if somebody feel this is necessary.--Begemotv2718 03:34, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Russian is OK to start, English is preferable of course, more people in the English WP will be able to use it. No need to translate, we trust you to make the article report what it says as accurately as possible. Stan 13:41, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I stumbled onto this article after I happened to StumbleUpon this timeline [4] (skip to 1959 for the mention of Papa Doc). I'm commenting because the timeline accuses the US Government of bolstering his regime, while the article has no mention of it. I don't have enough information to determine what is or isn't the truth in that respect, but I thought I'd mention it here. --Knuckle Bean 17:11, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

He attended Michigan for only a year, had to leave because he had a poor command of English. He worked with the medical mission and helped rid the country of a foot disease contracted by not wearing shoes. Can't think of the name of it as I do not have my notes in front of me right now.

I believe the above disease is yaws. Though I don't think "contracted by not wearing shoes"is the correct way to describe it. It's a bacterial disease, though not wearing shoes certainly wouldn't help.(Flyte35 (talk) 00:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC))

A picture would be nice

I was looking for a photo of a Papa Doc with this article, but there is none. Does anyone know of a good picture? Supermagle 18:30, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

There are many pictures of him available on the internet. I am fairly sure that there must be at least a couple of them in the public domain, though last time I checked, I was unable to locate any at Wikimedia Commons. Albert Wincentz 22:29, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Mother

Is there any verifiable evidence to substantiate the potentially defamatory comments about FD's mother ? If not, ought not this slur be deleted from the article ? Even if there is, ought not consideration be given as to the relevance of the matter to this entry ? --- SockpuppetSamuelson (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 09:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The information about his mother is in the Elizabeth Abbott book, listed as reference #3. Such an obviously traumatic childhood is potentially important to explaining some of his character though this is certainly a debatable point.(Flyte35 (talk) 03:39, 21 April 2008 (UTC))

Catholic Church

"But in 1966, Duvalier managed to persuade the Vatican to allow him to nominate the Catholic hierarchy for Haiti" despite his earlier excommunication. Obviously, the Catholic church and Duvalier came to some sort of accommodation, probably financial. Any information on how much he paid them?

John Paul Parks (talk) 04:43, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe the negotiations had more to do with the church's concern with Communism and Voodoo but I'm really not sure. I can't recall anything to indicate that Duvalier actually bribed the church.Flyte35 (talk) 06:29, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

"elected" -- dubious, needs to be explained

The election that brought him into power in the first place was not a free and fair election. Hardly the case. Paul Farmer's "The Uses of Haiti" details this in its brief examination of Haiti's modern history, and is thick with citations for that section; Peter Hallward's "Damming the Flood" is similarly informative. It is widely agreed that the first totally free and fair elections in Haiti were in 1990, which resulted in bringing Jean Bertrand Aristide to power, and he is widely considered to be Haiti's first democratically elected President. This needs to be clarified in the article. The election that brought Papa Doc to power is not taken seriously (it was rife with rigging and intimidation). Neither is the election of 1988 that brought Leslie Manigat to power, with the participation of 4% of the population. 50.74.192.11 (talk) 22:08, 5 December 2011 (UTC)