Talk:Freeware

Criteria/definition

I removed the following for being unsourced and POV. The first paragraph is entirely superfluous; it basically says "this is freeware, or it isn't, depending on what you think", which is a tautology. The second paragraph seems to indicate that anything with strings attached doesn't qualify as "freeware", which doesn't jive with popular usage. Lots of freeware programs out there are used as loss leaders, for example nearly all AV/firewall freeware usually has a Pro edition. It's too restrictive to say that freeware can't be a loss leader, can't use advertising to generate revenue, etc. Certainly these are less desirable types of freeware but it seems to me they still count as freeware. Ham Pastrami (talk) 23:52, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

There is some software which may be considered freeware, but which has limited distribution; that is, it may only be downloaded from a specific site, and cannot be redistributed. Hence, this software wouldn't be freely redistributable software. According to the basic definition, that software would be freeware; according to stricter definitions, it wouldn't be.

The term freeware may include public domain software and proprietary software. However, freeware does not include such loss leaders as crippleware, adware, shareware, nagware or demoware, where there is a deferred cost to be paid to use the software. Besides a monetary price, such a cost may be having to give up part of your screen in order for the program to display advertising; continually being reminded about a "pro" version of the program via nag screens; having to use the program quickly before it becomes disabled; etc.

More emphasis on license?

This article should include more of a focus on freeware as a type of license. Freeware, as programs, aren't really distinct from other types of software. Rather, the significance of freeware is the terms under which the software is provided, i.e. a license. Ham Pastrami (talk) 00:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I removed "Since freeware refers to the terms under which software is provided, it is a type of software license rather than a functional software category." from the intro. Freeware is not a license. A license is related to IP and the right to modify and redistribute the software. The developer/publisher of a freeware app can choose to include a restrictive EULA or adapt a less restrictive free software license. The developer can include copyleft restrictions as well. As the article points out, freeware is not necessarily the same as free software. Free software come with free software licenses. Free software grants certain freedoms to the end-users. Freeware does not have to be free in that sense. A freeware application can have a proprietary license, a free software license (e.g. GPL), or no license at all. Slo-mo 11:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Huh? A license is the set of conditions under which the software is offered. A license agreement is the contract between the user and copyright owner to adhere to those terms. You cannot have a license agreement without a license to agree to. A EULA document includes the text of the license (otherwise you'd be agreeing to nothing). A license is not limited to modification and redistribution -- binaries are also copyrightable, and without a license you cannot legally redistribute them. However, you're correct that public domain software is not licensed, so I will add that qualification. Ham Pastrami (talk) 16:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Heh, I kind of misinterpreted your reference to license-free software. I thought you meant public domain, which is a valid point. However, the article you referenced is about a type of licensing that has been coined as "license-free", in the same sense that "copyleft" is in fact a form of copyright, and neither really has any relevance to this topic that I can see. Ham Pastrami (talk) 17:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Slo-mo is right. "Freeware" is not about licenses, it's about prices ($0.00). You can have freeware that is GPL-licensed, a la free software. You can have freeware that disavows ownership, a la public domain software. And you can have freeware that doesn't permit redistribution, a la proprietary software. RossPatterson (talk) 22:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Your argument about price is certainly much more understandable; the word "freeware" means gratis software, I agree with that. What I disagree with is that, apparently contrary to Slo Mo's and the latter half of your argument, yes, there is such a thing as a "freeware license": trivially, any license that is attached to freeware. The sentence in question doesn't say what freeware is, it says what the word freeware refers to -- its terms of use. You can edit this to be more precise if you like, or you can remove it if you believe it to be stating the obvious, but to say that freeware isn't a type of licensing is incorrect; the duality of open source and proprietary licenses is not absolute. In fact, the latter as a category only exists as the antithesis to the former. Freeware licensing, shareware licensing, etc. are all valid types of licenses that exist outside the blanket of "proprietary". That is whether Richard Stallman likes it or not. Ham Pastrami (talk) 00:48, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Allow me to correct myself: the sentence as worded does imply a re-definition of "freeware", that is a mistake and I will change it now. Ham Pastrami (talk) 01:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Free2Play

Shouldn't Free2Play be added. Free2Play is a common form or term using by the gaming industry that indicate the game as a Freeware EULA. I know it usually come in 2 forms, free forever and premium accounts or free forever account only, both with Marketplace / Item-mall. Marketplace or Item-mall is the most commonly type of operations that a free MMO games operate. Larger corporations such as Digicell and K2Network often have a community game that is used for online transaction or multiple accounts. --Ramu50 (talk) 01:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Shareware x Freeware

The article concering Shareware says "(shareware)...is distributed without payment on a trial basis and is limited by any combination of functionality, availability, or convenience...The aim of shareware is to give buyers the opportunity to use the program and judge its usefulness before purchasing a licence for the full version of the software."

Whereas Freeware says: "Freeware is computer software that is available for use with no cost or for an optional fee.[1]. Freeware is different from shareware, where the user is obliged to pay (e.g. after some trial period or for additional functionality)."

Isn't that somewhat contradictory? Or did I misunderstand what is said here? There are optional fees, but how doesn't that make it shareware? You do pay fees for more functionality or convenience, then it is shareware. And in Shareware it is said that the user is limited by any combination "functionality, availability, or convenience". I guess demos could fit in the description, even those that have no expiration time. To what extent can't "freeware" with fees or extra subscriptions be considered a demo or trial of some sort? I always believed that freeware was some piece of software 100% free (no subscriptions or extra fees).

For example, F2P games, as mentioned above, are often considered as "freeware" by many. But they almost always have "cash shops", and users who don't pay to get credit for buying extra stuff from such cash shops usually don't experience a "complete" version of the game in comparison to those who pay, this ranges from insignificant things to vital aspects of the gameplay. And even that way, all of them claim to be "freeware", not "shareware". Can someone help me coming up with the real definition on this?--Faitudum (talk) 19:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I think the writing is merely vague... the appositive attached to the end of the second sentence is talking about shareware, not the freeware that is initially mentioned. I'll try to clean this up right now. Ham Pastrami (talk) 02:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

There's always been a lot of ambiguity in these terms. The very stripped-down article as it now stands is a pretty good definition of the historic meaning of freeware. Shareware, in the Association of Shareware Professionals Sense, was software you could try (fully-featured) for a period and then were required to buy. I'd argue that the term is largely meaningless today as that would include all manner of software from the likes of Adobe and Microsoft as well. ghaff (talk) 04:16, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Examples

I believe Firefox should be removed as an example. While it is technically Freeware because no monetary contribution is required, Firefox is general considered to be free software, which is something this article is attempting to avoid confusion with. For the sake of avoiding said confusion, free software such as Firefox should be removed or at the least many examples of proprietary freeware should be added along with it and distinguished from free software. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.134.204.247 (talk) 17:22, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Indee a confusion with Free software is possible, but as you say, Firefox is technically freeware. I've made it clear that there is closed-source freeware and open-source freeware. --SF007 (talk) 23:50, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Criteria section

The current Criteria section says more about "free software" than it does about freeware. -- leuce (talk) 15:02, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I have commented in the past that the constant comparisons being added to free software places undue emphasis in an article that is supposed to be about freeware. What I've noticed, however, is that the WP community overall places undue weight on the free software concept, likely because WP itself is based on it (GFDL). I am of the opinion that the only mention of free software that is really necessary is the disambiguation link at the top. Historically, the form of licensing most compared to freeware is shareware. Certainly, if there's going to be an extensive discussion centered on "freeware vs" the bulk of it should be regarding shareware. Otherwise all of this belongs in a Comparison of software licenses article. Ham Pastrami (talk) 02:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Very valid point. I guess I need to read the "Free Software" article to find out about Freeware instead. Since this is epidemic on WP though I guess deleting FSF references here would not do much good. 63.241.31.130 (talk) 21:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

The section only has two sentences on free software, and is hardly a majority:

Accordingly, freeware may or may not be free software or open source software. The principal difference being that free software can be used, studied, and modified without restriction; free software embodies the concept of "libre" while freeware that of "gratis".

Also, the intro has a necessary mention.

Freeware is generally proprietary software available at zero price, and is not free software.

This doesn't seem like "undue emphasis" to me.

The article is really just a stub still, in my opinion. More material and references should be added, rather than threats to splicing things out. --Ashawley (talk) 14:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Confusion on the "free beer" analogy

In the Criteria section, part-way into the second paragraph, it says, "The principal difference being that free software can be used, studied, and modified without restriction; free software embodies the concept of 'free speech' while freeware that of 'free beer'." Call me stupid, but I have never heard that before, therefore I don't know what is being alluded to here. Could that maybe be fixed, or at least clarified in the article? Thanks. 98.202.38.225 (talk) 23:42, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Usage of the term freeware

Quick question: Is the correct usage:
1) Program X is a freeware.
2) Program X is freeware.
Inquiring minds want to know! -- Schapel (talk) 13:11, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

When "freeware" is not freeware?

When it's crippleware, nagware, adware, spyware, trialware etc. Is this incorrect? I see lots of people trying to promote programs as freewares when what you actually get isn't the full program but a crippled version, or it's somthing that keeps showing advertisement or nagging you to buy the full version/"register", or somthing that doesn't stay fully functional after a small period etc; it is incorrect to call those freewares, don't you agree? --TiagoTiago (talk) 17:56, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

• crippleware, nagware, adware, spyware, trialware Yug (talk) 19:27, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Freeware make better code

• http://www.technewsworld.com/story/software/73491.html

Yug (talk) 19:27, 22 October 2011 (UTC)