Talk:General Motors LS-based small-block engine

Renamed article and moved Gen II section

When it comes down to it the Gen II engines share nothing in common with the (LS based) Gen III-V engines. The SBC and the Gen II engines however have several key traits in common: Deck height, bore spacing, part interchangeability (namely rotating assembly), and basic block architecture (which is about as strong an argument as you can have). This commonality clearly demonstrates SBC's and Gen II's very close relationship and warrants the Gen II's inclusion on this page. When it comes down to it, the Gen II engines are nothing more than modified SBC engines. Now I know in the process of moving the Gen II section, I might have messed something up. I was forced to rename the LS based engines to something and all I could come up with was Gen III-V small-block (LS based GM small-block engines seems a better choice to me). There shouldn't be too much of an issue calling the Gen V engines LS based after all Deck height, bore spacing, part interchangeability (namely rotating assembly), and basic block architecture is shared with the Gen III and IV engines; the Gen V engine are not exactly clean slate designs. Gulielmi2002 (talk) 17:32, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Remove the Gen II engines from this page and merge the Gen II with the Gen I page.

The Gen II engine have mechanically nothing in common with the Gen III thru V engines. The Gen II are bacically Gen I (specifally the Gen I 305 and 350) engines that have been slightly modified to incorporate the Gen II updates; the Gen I and Gen II have similar basic block and mechanical architecture, and there is some good part interchangeability. It makes perfect sense to have the Gen III thru V grouped together beacuse their basic block and mechanical architectures are similar if not the same in many aspects, and there is some good part interchangeability. Having the Gen II on this page also goes againts the basic idea that this page and the Gen I page have: part interchangeability. you can remove the rotating assembly from a Gen II LT1 or Gen II L99 and put them into a Gen I engine with no issue. You can't take the rotating assembly of any Gen II engines and put them into a Gen III thru Gen V engine as they are 100% completely different. you take a Gen III 5.3 L crank and put it into a Gen IV or Gen V and there is not issue epesically if you update the exciter ring on the crank to the a 58x. The Gen III thru Gen V aren't exactly the same but at the same time they aren't 100% different.Gulielmi2002 (talk) 18:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

To do: Gen 5 Engines & Tables

The Gen 5 engines need detailed and tables given.

Idea for this page: Give each Generation it's own article. This page is pretty bloated and long, even though I would not say the information is as complete as it could be. The High Feature V6 is well filled out and organized, using that as an example to follow would be good. --2602:306:3778:3089:D414:B29C:71A1:6CA (talk) 14:17, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Holden VE Commodore Application

The section on the L98 shows application dates of 2006-2007. As far as I'm aware the L98 6.0L V8 is still being fitted to "SS" and "SS-V" variants of the Commodore range and as such should read 2006-present. Open for discussion before edit. Drew. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.229.111.136 (talk) 09:46, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I believe earlier ls6 engines were 385 horsepower. The 405 hp version came later, after the addition of lighter valves a higher lift cam and better exhaust. Will do some research and come back.--Ultrapop1 02:10, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

Much appreciated! --SFoskett 03:01, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

LS2 / LS7 Ratings

Chevy rates the LS2 in the C6 at 400 hp @ 6000 rpm, not 405. Also, IIRC the new LS7 has been rated at 505 hp @ 6300 rpm and 470 lbs-ft @ 4800 rpm by the new SAE J2723 rating. Atleast that's according to the GM Small Block blog. I'm going to go ahead and change those.--C-Tine 2 July 2005 17:32 (UTC)

You're right. These numbers were fixed on the Chevrolet Corvette page but not here. Thanks! --SFoskett July 2, 2005 19:35 (UTC)

You all are talking about the LS2 in camaro and other sports cars but what about the LS1 in trans am? Can you tell me how much horsepower it has? The car I'm getting has a LS1 engine with a ram air, how much hp would that have? -HLN- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.217.200.156 (talk) 17:40, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Ram air almost makes no difference, maybe if you're going 100 mph you MIGHT pick up 3 hp or something....I can't prove this, but the ram air design on these cars are very inefficient, mostly because of the baffles they used to keep rain out of your intake. Either way, your car is probably putting out around 340-350 hp.

BTW, the Camaro and the Trans Am got the same engine, the LS1, even the 5th gen Camaro SS got the LS3, never the LS2 99FormulaM6 (talk) 21:52, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Factory Five

I've just removed the reference to the Factory Five from the LS1 section - seeing as it's not a production vehicle (it's a kit car), it's about as relevant as mentioning that there are 1993 RX-7's with LS1s. Ayocee 17:29, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The Trans Am WS6 makes right around 350ish stock with the ram-air —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.157.165 (talk) 17:24, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

'550hp' claim

One of GM's favorite things to trumpet about the new Z06 and LS7 is that it is the first engine to be certified using SAE's J2723 test. I find it highly suspect that they would trumpet this, and yet somehow manage to 'miss' 45hp. Ayocee 02:49, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

They didn't "miss" 45hp. An unladden LS7 was SAE tested, not the Z06. The engine is rated for 505hp, and 45 hp is lost throught the drivetrain. It isn't 550hp or even 505hp by the time it gets to the wheels.--24.89.215.104 01:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect, the LS7 (like all production engines) is rated via engine dynamometer. I.E. the advertised power is what the engine produces at the flywheel. The LS7 only produces 430-460 at the rear wheels as measured via chassis dyno in stock form. To put it simply, the LS7 produces roughly 505 HP at the crank and is NOT "underrated". TheBalance (talk) 02:16, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Units

An effort should be made to adopt some unit convention, either SI (english) OR english (SI). It reduces the quality of the articles if the units are constantly mixed. For example, the engine size notation ci (cc) is proper if other measurements are cited as inches (centimeters).

That's the interesting part with American engines. The engineers design and build the block with SI, but they publicly post the engine's vital stats in english. The LT and LS blocks were both designed with SI measurement and their displacements are both advertised in metric. In this case, unit conversion should stand as "SI (english)"

With that said, it's safe to say that Detroit doesn't use cubic inches anymore. Only the old guys are calling an LS7 a "427" or an LS1 a "350".--24.89.215.104 23:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The LT block was still designed in inches, it has the same 4.0/3.48 combo that all prior 350's had. That said, anyone calling the LS1 a "350" either works for a parts store or doesn't check their facts...most people refer to it as the 346 that it is, if they call it in cubes. The LS7 is at least still technically a 427, even if it isa 427.9 cubic inch engine. Ford can keep the 428 number ;) Ayocee 16:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

HSV GTS

HSV's GTS didn't use the LS6. It used the LS1, that was modified by Callaway & was designated "C4B": http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1553/article.html Aml_0000 15:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Piston Slap

I think this should be part of the article. There was a class action suit, for LS1s, no? As I recalled there were alot of pist-off GM owners. 192.197.71.189 22:06, 13 December 2006 (UTC) CJ DUB 22:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

There were some, but they still amounted to a small percentage of all LS-series V8's produced. Given that GM has never issued anything more than a TSB for the issue, and that these TSBs only cover engines up through 2002, I think the mention / wording in the article was a bit sensationalist. For every one vehicle that had an engine replaced, or other bottom-end repairs done to resolve this issue, there are literally thousands on the road with no piston slap problems whatsoever. Ayocee 18:28, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

HAHAHA. Tell that to the people who ended up with piston slap. A manufacturer may not release a recall as this would be admitting there is a known problem, would open them to litigation and more serious class actions. By the way, what's your reference for the numbers of engines w/wo piston slap? CJ DUB 22:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Please sign your posts. How would a recall open them to more litigation, or any at all? I have no reference that is not anecdotal (I know many people who own / have owned Generation III V8s and not one has ever had a serious case of piston slap) but I have also never once seen any actual information provided regarding the actual numbers of engines that are affected. I get the feeling it's as overstated as the Mazda 1.8 #4 failure from 1999-2000, and Mazda did issue a TSB and recall procedure for those.Ayocee 17:13, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Dude that is a class action suit waiting to happen. You get $10K, I'll find a trial lawyer. The comment "I know many people who own..." is pure anecdote. The article makes it seem as though it something that really happened to nobody. The text entry "However, the scope of the problem appears to be fairly limited as no recall has been issued by General Motors, and the majority of owners of these engines do not report this issue. [citation needed] Additionally, it appears that this issue is confined only to a small number of the engines produced between 1997 and 2002." is also anedotal. Please reference the "fairly limited" and the "only early" engines. I have found evidence that this issue affect 2007 models, even. CJ DUB 22:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know that my only evidence is anecdotal (which is why I noted it as such) but I've never seen any non-anecdotal evidence to the contrary. If this is truly a 'class action lawsuit waiting to happen', how has it not happened in the decade that the engine has been out? Where are the numbers and evidence showing how many engines have actually been replaced due to this problem? Where are the TSBs relating explicitly to GenIII / IV engines after 2002? The only TSBs for newer model years that I've found are GM policy changes across GM's whole line, everything below 8500LB, so basically every GM engine from the Ecotec on up except for the Duramax and 496. Where is the proof that the problem is anything other than a cold-engine noise in almost all cases? Every Volvo redblock I've ever seen was noisy as hell on startup and yet they'll run 200k or more like it was nothing; cold noise is not a definite indicator for long-term problems. Where are the used GenIII / IV equipped vehicles with "New engine at xx miles" in the ad? You'll find it with other vehicles that have engines with longevity issues (such as the FD RX-7...the turbocharged 13B rotary makes for some great power, but cared for improperly and it will eat apex seals like nobody's business). There isn't much that can be offered as evidence that it is not a large problem, but where is the evidence that it IS a problem?Ayocee 16:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it's worth revisiting this topic and its merits as to inclusion in Wikipedia. My previous reply above may have been worded a bit harshly in exasperation (or whatever it was) but the fact remains that even now the only 'source' available for the problem (as well as its scope and severity) appears to be a site that would arguably fall under the category of a self-published source. I'm not trying to be combative or argumentative here, either; if there's a reputable source that actually shows evidence of piston slap being a) a problem on a significant number of engines and b) a significant issue, I'd love to see it (and cite it for Wikipedia purposes). Ayocee 21:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I have a 2004 crate LS1 that i bought from Chevrolet and installed in my 2001 Camaro, the engine has Piston Slap from day one.I just let the engine warm up before i drive and BTW I added a supercharger with 8 psi boost and still no problems from it.I drag raced for over 12 years and most of the time I set the engine up loose for piston speed and almost every time had some piston slap. it's not a problem for me. Camaro guy 11:47,June 14 2012

Anyone can say they have a LS1 with pistons slap, but i can't seem to find one even in a used dealer lot with piston slap, found a 5.0L mercury & 5.0 explorer that had piston slap with only 100k miles, and that's a smaller piston. stop making stuff up, this doesn't exist real life, in larger numbers like the 5.0L in SUV's — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.159.206 (talk) 16:48, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

"All LS1s make 345hp"

There are known and easily-verified differences in the details of most LS1 variants - the cam used in the Corvette is not the same cam as in the Camaro, and the camshaft specifications changed between 1997-2000 and 2001-on. While it's likely that the actual output is closer than GM would admit, there's no reason to believe that every version of LS1 ever used was actually putting down 345hp. Ayocee 20:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

In 2000 all F-bodies dropped the EGR and got the same large overlap cam that was in the 'vettes LS1. Other then exhaust system and air intake before the throttle body the engines are practically the same and produce relatively the same power. The numbers were very close before 2000. Some C5s would dyno more then F-bodies, some would dyno less. The differences mostly fell on an engine to engine basis. I've personally seen show room stock Fbodies and C5s dyno 310+ RWHP and some under 290 on the same dyno.

False, the F-Body continued with EGR through 2000; the LS1 in my truck was sourced from a wrecked 2000 Camaro and the EGR system / intake manifold was still present. Additionally, simply because two cars presumed to be stock (it's truly amazing how far one can go with no indications of any modification whatsoever) returned similar rear-wheel horsepower numbers is far from being 'verifiable' according to the Wikipedia standards. Also, keep in mind the independent rear suspension on the Corvette, which provides a better ride and improved handling...but also causes larger parasitic loss when compared to the simpler live-axle setup of the F-Body. Ayocee 17:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I was mistaken. In 2001 EGR went away in the F-bodies. Is it possible there was overlap between the 2000-2001 model years engines in Fbodies? I am almost sure I've seen a 2000 LS1 Camaro w/o EGR from the factory. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.115.27.10 (talk) 14:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

There's no way GM would've done that - they would have had to build two different F-Body engines and there would have been no reason to do so, if not emissions regulations in place making doing so difficult. EGR is very easy to remove, and a "factory" looking job would only require a 2001+ exhaust manifold for the passenger side, one of the non-EGR low profile intake manifolds (Corvette LS1, or LS6), a reflash, and a little creativity with hiding the wiring for the EGR. Ayocee 23:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

it should be posted as a range of power out puts: 305-330 hp in Fbodies depending on if it was a Z28 or SS version, 345 hp for the vettes, and 350 hp for the GTO. like this LS1 (305-350 hp model and year dependent)Gulielmi2002 (talk) 16:31, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I think that something should be added about the actual power output of the LS1's....an LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1, year to year differences made almost no differences on power output. I know there was something stated about this already, but I want to clear it up a bit. In F-body cars, at least, 1998-2000 had a larger cam than in the 2001-2002 models, which dropped EGR to use the LS6 intake manifold and had to have a smaller cam to clear emissions. In mid 2000, they also changed the head design (to the 241 heads from the 853 heads) which didn't change the design really. Also, some 2001-2002 LS1's had the LS6 block, which didnt really make a large difference. Another thing, the 2001-2002 used better headers which did help with power a bit. Power output didn't change by any large amount after the switch. F-body cars usually dyno higher than the C5's stock for stock because, as stated, the IRS in the C5's cause a higher drivetrain loss.

I just think that something should be included to say that just because your car is rated at 305, you're probably not putting that out at the flywheel, but at the rear wheels. 99FormulaM6 (talk) 21:51, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

External links

It's getting pretty bad with a lot of GM pages but this one is particularly bad. It looks to me that, when compared against WP:EL, none of these links pass the criteria. Thoughts? Ayocee 16:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Aluminum LH6 reference

All LH6's have aluminum block and heads, right? The LS4 section of this article indicates that it is iron. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.171.180.101 (talk) 23:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

reorganization

i am in the process of reorganizing this page to have the same flow as the original small block page and the LT series page. i have included the 4.8, 5.3, and the 6.0 in this page as well.Gulielmi2002 (talk) 20:02, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

ok i have completed the reorganization. this organization shows the relationship between each of the engines, cleans up the flow of this page, and adds the 99 or new V8 vortec engine in this page which needed to be here from the very beginning insted of just putting "car" only V8s. now all three pages that deal with the small blocks V8 (gen I thru gen IV) have the same flow and organization. Gulielmi2002 (talk) 18:24, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Why did you put Vortec engines on an LS engine page? The S in LS is there for a reason. Viperman5686 (talk) 07:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

the vortec engines(4.8, 5.3, 6.0, and 6.2) in question are LS series engines because their block design is based off of the LS1. vortec is a term that GM uses for an engine that is in a truck. if i were to get an aluminum 5.3L short block and put it next to an LS1 short block, you couldn't tell that they were two different engines unless you measured their bores or ran their casting numbers. infact you can save some money in making an LS1 by getting a LM7 and boring it out 120 over. if you are wanting the LS1 look on the over bored LM7 just add LS1 intake, LS1 accessory drive, and LS1 harmonic balancer.

the LS2 that was in the trailblazer had the world vortec on its engine covering, meaning that the term "vortec" is meaningless. really why should it matter if the engine came from a truck or car. i think the real question is why wasn't these engines included when the page was originally made? the addition of the of the LS based vortec engines makes the LS series page whole and legitate. now the LS series page isn't about "what did the engine come out of: car or truck?" but "do these engines share a common block architecture and have part interchangeability?".

as for the S in LS i have no clue what that means and why its there. what does the T in LT1 standard for? i know that the S doesn't stand for sport or super because the LS1 took the place of the LT1 inwhich the T definitely doesn't stand for sport or super. but going back to this page. if you can give a valid arguement to why the LS based V8 vortecs shouldn't be included on the LS based engine page, they can be removed. Gulielmi2002 (talk) 16:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. Viperman5686 (talk) 18:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

your question is a very good and valid one to ask. i am suprized that no one has asked it in this page or the generation I and II pages that i have reorganized with similar questioning considering that all three have similar organisation and flow to them.Gulielmi2002 (talk) 19:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

GenIII LS engines are SBC

all the LS engines are SBC. yes they can be found in other brands besides Chevy just like the previous two generations. this is relativily easy and i do mean easy thing to source. after the early 80's all V8's were either a Chevrolet or Cadillac design. the name itself is in referance to small block chevrolet, example: Gen I refers to Generation I small block chevrolet; Gen II refers to Generation II small block chevrolet; and of course Gen III/IV refers to Generation III/IV small block chevrolet. should we stop calling the northstar engines Cadillac engines all together as well and just simple call them premium V8s. technically both names are valid. just like the name SBC in referance to Gen III. it is technically correct to call them GM small blocks just like it is technically correct to call them SBC.Gulielmi2002 (talk) 16:43, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Gen III SBC That's four references to the name in less than a minute of searching. removal of the Chevrolet from the article is nonsense because you will need to remove it from multiple wiki pages as well as thousands of articles on the net.Gulielmi2002 (talk) 22:53, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Except the Gen III V8 isn't a small block Chevy, it's a GM corporate engine, which GM often referres to as the Gen III V8. TheBalance (talk) 00:11, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

funny here is an artical from GM itself saying: "The 5.7L Gen III LS1 introduced leading-edge technologies to the grand tradition of the Chevrolet small block V8, starting with all-aluminum construction, a thermoplastic intake manifold and drive-by-wire electronic throttle." http://archives.media.gm.com/division/2003_prodinfo/03_powertrain/03_car_engine/index.html . (go to 5.7 L and then click on "what's new". this is GM saying that its is a SBC. you can't add to a tradition of SBC if you aren't part of it already. Gulielmi2002 (talk) 23:54, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Where are you getting this? The engine was referred to as the "5.7L V8 (LS1)" in the document.

And "leading-edge technologies to the grand tradition of the Chevrolet small block V8" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the LS1 being considered a small block Chevy, considering it is a corporate engine. The reason the SBC is the SBC is because other GM divisions used their own engine families, had they all used the SBC it would have been the GM or GM corporate small block. That is what the Gen III+ is.

Now, click here: , note the LS engine isn't group with the SBC, now click on LS engine and note the description, and I quote, "Below is our LS range of crate engines including the LS1 V8 5.7L crate engine, LS2 V8 6.0L crate engine, LS3 V8 6.2L crate engine, LS6 V8 5.7L crate engine and the LS7 V8 7.0L crate engine described as the most technologically-advanced production GM small-block ever built"

Here GM itself tells us what to call the engine family: , and I quote, "Known as the LS Family V-8 small-block".

The LS family is not a SBC, it is the corporate GM small block V8.TheBalance (talk) 01:01, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

it is both, looking at the link does say this. adding to something does mean that it is a part of it. now if the LS engines weren't SBC they line would be this : "Taking or building off (which would imply not SBC) from the grand traditions of the SBC The 5.7L Gen III LS1 introduced starting with all-aluminum construction, a thermoplastic intake manifold and drive-by-wire electronic throttle," but notice that it does say introduced new technologies to SBC. follow the link that i provided. click on the 5.7L in the break down. in the 5.7L spec page click on the Whats new and you will read the exact words that i copied and pasted here. this page predates your reference by 5 years the information predates yours by 11 years. Gulielmi2002 (talk) 18:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

The LS was a clean sheet design, intended from the outset as the corporate small-block. In fact, the LS has more in common design-wise with the small block Ford than it does the SBC. The LS is not a small block Chevy in any respect, give it up. TheBalance (talk) 04:41, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

why give it up when a: GM itself has posted it many times in the LS1 info paper and in the LS7 info paper and b: it beyond easy to get the info and sources example: http://grannys.tripod.com/rx7engineselectioninfo.html and c: the info on how ls1 came to be which was posted in hot rod mag in the early 2000s. really a ford small block...because the heads have semetrical exhaust ports? after the early 80's there were only two brands making V8s, chevy and cadillac....which still hasn't changed. it is not incorrect to call the LS engines gen III/IV SBC V8s as it also not incorrect to call them just gen III/IV V8s, the latter is just a shorter name for the first oneGulielmi2002 (talk) 22:03, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

That is hardly a relevant source. GM itself refers to the LSx engines as Gen III/IV small block V8s.

The LS is has many similarities with the SBF: identical cylinder head bolt pattern (vastly different from the 5-bolt SBC pattern), symmetrical intake AND exhaust port layout, nearly identical (high) camshaft position in the block, virtually the same deck height as the 351C. The only aspect the LSx shares with the SBC is bore spacing and rod journal diameter. For instance, LSx heads will bolt onto a 302/351 Ford block without modification, yet will not bolt onto a 350 SBC block, not even close. The LSx was a clean sheet engine design, one that took essentially nothing from the traditional SBC playbook, and was always intended as a corporate engine, not a "Chevy engine". The LSx is not a SBC, it is a GM corporate small block, and referring to it as a SBC will only mislead people into thinking it is related to the traditional SBC engine family, when that couldn't be further from the truth. TheBalance (talk) 21:49, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I've been following this discussion for the last couple of days and have read the sources provided for each side of the argument. I'm going to have to agree with the idea that the GM LS engine is a corporate engine manufactured by GM for use in all of their brands and is not Chevrolet specific in any way. If anything, GM seems to relate to the Chevrolet small-block only in marketing terms and that's probably only because the SBC has some history and identity behind its name. roguegeek (talk·cont) 23:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

yes i will agree with the fact that the LS engine are corporate engines but so where the Gen I's after the early 80s. i am not arguing that they can't be called GM Gen III+ small blocks, but i am arguing that they can be called Gen III+ SBC too. the fact that they started out exclusively chevrolet is one point and more models of the chevrolet line up use them. just look at the numbers: LS1 exclusively chevy from 97-99; 4.8L exclusively chevy 99-current; 5.3L exclusively chevy 99-02; 6.0 exclusively chevy 99-02. chevrolet heads the non-premium (cady engines) under GM powertrain because they use them more just like cadillac heads the northstar engines under GM powertrain both common knowledge. other brands under GM use them true and modify them for their needs same was true for the Gen I's because they are corprate engine but who is the main design influence behind them...chevrolet. just like you can call the high feature V6s cady/holden engines because they designed them and yes they too are corporate engine as well.Gulielmi2002 (talk) 01:12, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

The sbc (not the corporate v-8 LS engines)was not a corporate engine. If it was then the Olds v-8 was as well, since they put them in several car lines from different divisions up to 1990.

References

what about the 8.1 liter

Unless I just missed it I heard no mention of the 8.1L —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.128.182.76 (talk) 06:05, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

the 8.1 L vortec is a BBC engine with some mods originating from LS family. i went to a car dealership (ron carder in alvin, tx awhile back) and they had a cut-away of this 8.1L engine. externally and internally its a BBC; basically it's a stroked 454 with coil over plug, and even retains its hole for a distributor, but that hole is being used for some sensor that is used for timing of the coilsGulielmi2002 (talk) 16:34, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

The 8.1 (496 cu.in.) isn't even close to a big block Chevy. Completely different engine. The 8.2 (502 cu.in.) is a big block Chevy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.106.79.0 (talk) 17:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

There is no argument when an actual cutaway engine is displayed showing that it is nothing more than a BBC with modifications and/or upgrades. Firing order, size, nor does upgraded coil packs make the 8.1 not a BBC. Deck height, bore spacing, part interchangeability, and overall block architecture do, and in this case does. The proof is in the engine cutaway.Gulielmi2002 (talk) 16:20, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Pictures

Some pictures showing the engines apart of cars would be informative. --46.115.124.135 (talk) 13:15, 2 August 2013 (UTC) with reference to the 8.1 or 496 engine comments and particularly about the cutaway confirming it is nothing but a modified BBC i note the following having dealt with theses engines in marine applications. Pistons are side specific, crank is specific, flywheel and balancer are specific, heads are left and right not interchangeable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julius750 (talk • contribs) 23:31, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

LS1 engine shares firing order with Toyota UZ engine

Toyota UZ engine came before Ford modular and LS engines, so why are we using Ford as an example for firing order. this follow an incorrect fanboy argument that LS engine is just a copy of a Ford design, and serves no other purpose. Ford modular 4.6L OHC only made 210hp while Northstar 4.6L OHC made 300hp, so i think Modular is a bad example of a modern engine.

First Generation

what happened to the first generation in this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BIGBLOCKFAN (talk • contribs) 15:39, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

BIGBLOCKFAN, there was never a first generation General Motors small-block engine. General Motors considers the Chevrolet small-block engine as the "first generation" small-block engine. However, it should be noted that the General Motors small-block engines are a corporate design and differ significantly from the original Chevrolet small-block engine design; enough to warrant a separate article. I hope that makes sense. Regards, VX1NG (talk) 15:12, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/General Motors Gen 5 "Small Block"

Please consider incorporating any useful information from this submission. ~KvnG 00:21, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

LS or LSx?

Technically, there is always a number after LS, and no single engine called just LS. Instead of listing all the numbers, the common number substitution is "x". LSX Forum, LSX Fest, LSX Challenge, etc. Shouldn't it have that here? Plus, if you remember the ricer craze, LS is a Honda engine. 68.229.212.186 (talk) 02:00, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on LS based GM small-block engine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120317125329/http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/Whats%20New/Gen%20IV/Gen%20IV%20Car/08_LS4.doc to http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/Whats%20New/Gen%20IV/Gen%20IV%20Car/08_LS4.doc

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 17:40, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Aluminum block cylinder liners

I noticed a recent edit regarding cylinder liners on the aluminum blocks was reverted. Thing is, it's true, the aluminum block LS and LT engines use cast iron liners. Carguy1701 (talk) 01:54, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on LS based GM small-block engine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071012042027/http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls6/page3.htm to http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls6/page3.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150620181509/http://www.motoring.com.au/reviews/2008/large-passenger/holden-special-vehicles/gts/csv-gts-ls7-5794 to http://www.motoring.com.au/reviews/2008/large-passenger/holden-special-vehicles/gts/csv-gts-ls7-5794

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:18, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

engine table

Add information about LT5 (376 ci V8 DOHC for 2018 Corvette ZR1) and LF3 (3.6L V6 DOHC twin turbo for 2020 Corvette C8) with same engine technology. Reference 3 minutes 30 seconds into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq7YimybK_w&t=184s — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.72.253.2 (talk) 01:14, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on LS based GM small-block engine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130702155012/http://gmpowertrain.com/VehicleEngines/PowertrainProducts.aspx to http://gmpowertrain.com/VehicleEngines/PowertrainProducts.aspx
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050112062930/http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2006/LS7.shtml to http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2006/LS7.shtml
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070820143041/http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId%3D117396 to http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId%3D117396

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:16, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on LS based GM small-block engine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140424194327/http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Vehicles/Performance/Engine_Showcase/LS/01_images/LS9%20Crate%20Engine%2019244099.pdf to http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Vehicles/Performance/Engine_Showcase/LS/01_images/LS9%20Crate%20Engine%2019244099.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:45, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Swaps vs transmission mating?

I assume this is well known among people who actually do LSx swaps but do the different engines or even generations generally mate up with a given GM vehicle's existing transmission? e.g. would an LM7 bolt up to an LR4 truck? The C5+ Corvettes have transaxles so obviously the torque tube is not shared, but what about the other platforms? I'm not looking for advice, and I don't think wiki would be the place to ask for it, I just think it would be notable one way or the other in terms of the history and continuity of the "GM small-block" that has been called so since 1955.74.96.220.27 (talk) 09:14, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

If my memory is correct, the LM7 and the LR4 used the same transmission during production, so yeah. Hell, the only difference with the LSx bellhousing bolt pattern versus the classic SBC is one bolt, IIRC. Carguy1701 (talk) 12:23, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Why LS?

Does LS stand for something? MBG02 (talk) 08:33, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Not particularly, no. However, GM engine RPO codes usually use the letter L as the first digit, and obviously the LS1 was the first member of the family, hence the designation. Carguy1701 (talk) 00:08, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Interchange between Gen III/IV and Gen V?

I was thinking about this idly (and got into a minor argument on Facebook over it), but the LT engines shouldn't have much if any interchange with the LS engines, should they? I know the top ends are different (the valve layout in the heads is flipped: intakes on an LT are where exhausts would be on an LS and vice versa), as well as camshafts (since LT cams need an addition on the end for the HPFP, something LS engines lack), but do the rotating assemblies have any interchange at all? I had added a note about the design differences in the Gen V section but I'll admit I'm not 100% sure. Carguy1701 (talk) 03:29, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

@Carguy1701: doesn't seem like it, I looked up rotating assembly products for various LS engines, and it seems that gen III/IV are definitely interchangeable whilst the gen V doesn't show up. Hope this helps (albeit it is a bit late) Obama gaming (talk) 21:38, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Gen VI removal

In my opinion the Gen VI doesn't have this place in this article. As the sources already in this section points out, the LT6 is a clean sheet design. No major parts are interchangable and the only characteristic that is tuely shared is the bore spacing.

The Gen V also had little part intechangability with the gen III end IV, but those still had an obvious filiation in the concept (pushrod 16 valve) and the general shape of the components. This is not something that we have in the Gen VI.

Frongicide (talk) 23:12, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree, for the same reasons you listed. Unless GM officially calls it a Small Block (and/or Gen VI, I honestly don't recall any of the articles for the C8 Z06 or the engine using that term), it should be spun off into its own article. Carguy1701 (talk) 02:57, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Understand where you're coming from but until GM officially says otherwise, we're treating this as a sixth generation block. We'll keep an eye on it, & if any updates pop in the next couple of months I'll be more than willing to move it to it's own page. Obama gaming (talk) 03:55, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

I would agree with this is if that page was titled something like "Chevrolet small block engine family" and would encompass all gens from I to VI, but currently gen I and II have their own dedicated page. If gen I and II are different enough to LS based engines warrant their own page, then surely gen VI is too. But currently this page is titled "General Motors LS-based small-block engine", wich is not a good fit for the content of the page since while the LT6 fits the usual criterias for a small block, it is not based on the LS. Moreover, the intro of the page makes goes into detail about the choice of pushrod thechnolgy and the consequences of that choice in terms of packaging and costs, wich doesn't applies to the LT6 since it is DOHC. Frongicide (talk) 15:38, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

@Frongicide: Yes I see where you're coming from, but as you can see from this article it is still referred to as a small block, and until GM releases another engine similar to this current "architecture" then we can seriously consider creating it's own page like for generation I & II. So for now, we'll keep it here. For now. Obama gaming (talk) 22:40, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

@Obama gaming: I am not, and have never been, contesting the "small block" part. I am contesting the "LS based" part. I find it ludicrous that we have an engine explicitely descibed as not based on the LS at the end of an article about LS based engines. If you want to wait before the split, then this page should be renamed as "modern Chevrolet Small Block engine", or something like that. The Blackwing fits the criteria for a small block too and yet has its own page - Despite the fact that it was essentially only produced in one version (with two different ouputs but hey, so was the LS3). Frongicide (talk) 03:37, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Yeah mate I definitely agree, I just have no idea what to name the new article. Any suggestions? Obama gaming (talk) 03:57, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

I'd say "modern Chevrolet Small Block engine" or "Post-LS General Motors small block engine" Frongicide (talk) 14:08, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

@Frongicide: Hmmm, do you think something like "Chevrolet small-block engine (sixth generation)" could work? Because obviously we don't know if this is a chevy exclusive or GM-wide engine, but those are good ones Obama gaming (talk) 20:24, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Oh you meant you agree on splitting ? Great ! "Chevrolet small-block engine (sixth generation)" would indeed be the most appropriate name for the dedicated Gen VI page IMO yes Frongicide (talk) 21:38, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

I have created a dedicated page with this name. Content is mostly info that was on this page for now. Frongicide (talk) 04:40, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Tone

It would seem this article was written by fanbois? 2607:F598:B69A:8D0:AD0B:1E18:FE37:B537 (talk) 17:31, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

There are 1-2 paragraphs that could stand a rework, even though the info is nominally correct. Carguy1701 (talk) 21:26, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

The introduction is certainly worded in a way that it completely deserves a re-write, but I'm not quite sure if we should remove it or reword it. The whole article needs a refresh to be honest, I'm just starting off with easy things such as replacing dead links for dyno charts. Obama gaming (talk) 20:48, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

I might take a stab at the one where Sloppy is namedropped if I get time, but if you beat me to it I won't complain. Carguy1701 (talk) 03:33, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Would pointing out that some LS engines outpowered their slightly larger Ford counterparts be too fanboyish? Examples would be how the 4.8L rather handily outpowered the 4.6L 2V in trucks and vans, as well as the 5.3L outpowering the 5.4L in both 2V and 3V forms. Carguy1701 (talk) 17:54, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't think that should be mentioned, unless there are specific mentions in tertiary sources (i.e. the 4.8L was the most powerful engine when it was released in X vehicle, more powerful than its Ford counterpart in Y vehicle). Otherwise I think it's WP:UNDUE. X-750 _{Rust In Peace... Polaris} 23:55, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough. Carguy1701 (talk) 03:07, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

LT4 in Escalade-V

Since this seems to be a hot button issue, I'll quote Cadillac's own press release: "The Escalade-V’s engine shares architectural similarities with the CT5-V Blackwing’s supercharged V-8, but features a larger, 2.65L R2650 TVS supercharger that helps overcome the higher inlet and exhaust restrictions on the full-size SUV application."; Car and Driver essentially says the same thing. That sounds like it's a modified version of the LT4. However, the press release does not give an RPO code for the engine (I think the press release for the CT5-V Blackwing did, for context). I'll admit I can't see GM developing a new variant of the Gen V engine for one application, but until we've got more concrete information, I think we should hold off on adding the Escalade-V to the LT4 application table. Carguy1701 (talk) 01:42, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

If you insist, Carguy1701. I have no objections. X-750 _{Rust In Peace... Polaris} 02:30, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Jalopnik says it is in fact the LT4. The supercharger (and block casting, apparently) are different from the CT5-V Blackwing. Wouldn't be the first time that GM has done something like this (the twin versions of the LT1 from the 90s come to mind). Carguy1701 (talk) 11:49, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Yep. Lot of articles say the engine is the same from the CT5-V blackwing (which has the same block, but a 2.65L supercharger instead of whatever the original displacement was). Cheers GM. Makes things really clear. X-750 _{Rust In Peace... Polaris} 23:53, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Anchor

For anyone wondering; I've rectified the broken anchor by red-adding it into the Silverado page. X750. Spin a yarn? _{Articles I've screwed over?} 19:25, 16 April 2023 (UTC)