Talk:Gay

Harry Houdini even though he weren't gay

Sorry, just asking everyone I can think of to please come and help me with a small editing issue at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harry_Houdini#Exhumation_edit and I respect your views. Djathinkimacowboy 10:40, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

This Topic Missed the Boat!

This topic does a good job, but it stops in 1969. I remember the Number 1 pop song, Alone Again, Naturally by Gilbert O Sullivan in 1971. "...we were cheerful, bright and gay." The term "gay" was used in a happy sense, not a sexual one. If it had, the radio would have banned the song.While I do not disbelieve what I read about the usage of the term "gay" by homosexuals, as they were known back in the 1960s and 70s, amongst themselves or perhaps progressive types, what I wanted to know is when and how did the term begin to be used by everyone, even nightly news announcers on TV. mid 1980s? late 1980s? 1990s? Where and who... That sort of thing

Talking about the usage of a word as a code for something else is not the same as it beign a mainstream usage — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.181.96.210 (talk) 13:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Request for change

While most of this article is pretty good, I think the "Sexual orientation, identity, behavior" section which states the following, while well-intentiones, is both confusing (generally), as well as just plain wrong about asexuality in particular:

If a person engages in same-sex sexual encounters but does not self-identify as gay, terms such as 'closeted', 'discreet', or 'bi-curious' may be applied. Conversely, a person may identify as gay without engaging in homosexual sex. Possible choices include identifying as gay socially while choosing to be celibate or while anticipating a first homosexual experience. Further, a bisexual person can also identify as "gay" but others might consider gay and bisexual to be mutually exclusive. There are some who are drawn to the same-sex, and may not have sex, and also not identify as gay; these could have the term 'asexual' applied, even though an 'asexual' generally can mean no attraction, and includes heterosexual attraction that is not sufficient to engage in sex, or where the sex act is not desirable, even though titillation may occur.

I would like to see it changed to this:

If a person engages in same-sex sexual encounters but does not self-identify as gay, such a person may identify or be referred to by others as 'closeted', 'discreet', 'bi-curious' or a 'man who has sex with men'. Conversely, a person may identify as gay without necessarily engaging in sex with people of the same sex. Examples of this include identifying as gay while choosing to be celibate, or identifying as gay while anticipating a first homosexual experience. Further, a bisexual person might identify as "gay", though some might consider gay and bisexual to be mutually exclusive. There are also people who are drawn to people of the same sex, yet who may not experience sexual attraction towards people of the same sex, but who may identify as gay. In the case of asexuality, an asexual person, while not being sexually attracted to people of any sex, may experience romantic attraction to people of the same sex, and may therefore identify as gay as well as asexual. Similarly, people whose primary romantic attraction is towards people of the same sex (or both sexes), but whose sexual attraction is largely confined to people of the opposite sex, may choose to identify as gay, regardless of their sexual attraction or behavior.

123.3.169.214 (talk) 05:22, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Definition

I'm not sure what sources were actually used in the first paragraph where the writer claims that the "other," negative meaning of "gay" is equivelant to rubbish, as in "that's so gay". But clearly the negative connotation of the word "gay" is the direct result of it's homosexual association. It is an absolute reflection of homophobic attitudes towards homosexuals and has it's roots in bigotry. It is absolutely incorrect to suggest that "that's so gay" was NOT referring to things of a (percieved) homosexual nature. It's derogatory use had and still has everything to do with social attitudes towards homosexuals. While it reflects negative attitudes towards homosexuals, it is clearly rooted in the same meaning. I hope that someone addresses this confused definition soon. Gay never meant "rubbish". EyePhoenix (talk) 02:20, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I spend chunks of my time with kids aged below ten, who have little understanding of sex and homosexuality. It's 100% clear that the rubbish meaning of gay is used among those kids. It is used by the kids BEFORE the kids learn the homosexual meaning. Yes, it may have it's roots in negative attitudes towards homosexuals, but that's not in the meaning those kids give it. It's a reality. Not sure how we best deal with it. HiLo48 (talk) 02:29, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

It sounds as though we need sources establishing both that this defintion originally had and perhaps still has homophobic connections, but currently may be used in a non-homophobic context. Doniago (talk) 13:50, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

"That's so gay" is definitely said by many youths who don't mean it any homophobic way, similar to those who say "That's so retarded" and don't mean it as an offense to mentally-challenged people, but I suppose it's safe to say that negative connotations with regard to the terms' original meanings still exists when used. Flyer22 (talk) 11:44, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

"Bringing Up Baby" (1938 film)

The quotation in the Sexualization section about the film "Bringing Up Baby" (1938) is incorrect. Cary Grant's character says "Because I've just gone gay all of a sudden!" I viewed the film tonight (2011-12-17) and wrote down the line immediately after it was spoken. He does not say "went" and there is no hint of a pause such as that indicated by the use of an ellipsis by the editor of this section (and there are certainly no missing words). Grant's character sounds as though he means "gay" in the modern sense of the term, not "frivolous"; after all, he is wearing a woman's robe. Since the line is known to have been an ad lib by Grant, it is understandable that he might have used a Hollywood "insider" term without thinking. Gdthayer (talk) 03:59, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 February 2012

112.205.182.16 (talk) 06:10, 2 February 2012 (UTC) Gay is a word (a noun or an adjective) that primarily refers to a homosexual person. The term was originally used to refer to feelings of being "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy"; it had also come to acquire some connotations of "immorality" as early as 1637.[1] The term's use as a reference to homosexuality may date as early as the late 19th century, but its use gradually increased in the 20th century.[1] In modern English, gay has come to be used as an adjective, and occasionally as a noun, referring to the people, especially to men, and the practices and cultures associated with homosexuality. By the end of the 20th century, the word gay was recommended by major style guides to describe people attracted to members of the same sex1st example is lyster villaruel.[2][3] At about the same time, a new, pejorative use became prevalent in some parts of the world. In the Anglosphere, this connotation, among younger speakers, has a derisive meaning equivalent to rubbish or stupid (as in "That's so gay."). In this use, the word does not mean "homosexual", so it can be used, for example, to refer to an inanimate object or abstract concept of which one disapproves. This usage can also refer to weakness or unmanliness. When used in this way, the extent to which it still retains connotations of homosexuality has been debated and harshly criticized.[4][5]

Not done: Please phrase your request in a 'please change X to Y' manner. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 06:37, 2 February 2012 (UTC)