Talk:General of the army of the United States

Merge

This article makes mention of things which should probably come under the articles General of the Army (USA) and General of the Armies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthew238 (talk • contribs)

Agree. But better redirected to General of the Armies, see that article lead, which links to General of the Army (United States) and states that this rank is not to be confused with it. Andrewa (talk) 03:27, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, is there a merge discussion elsewhere? The more I look at it, the more it seems better to have a separate article.

It's certainly not the same rank as General of the Army, but it's not the same rank as General of the Armies of the United States either.

And there seems to be plenty of material, albeit completely without references in the past. Andrewa (talk) 19:52, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Better material for an article on this topic is at General of the Armies#General of the Army of the United States and General of the Army (United States)#Post-American Civil War era and could be the basis of a new, more verifiable main article. Andrewa (talk) 19:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Related questions

Are Pershing's rank of General of the Armies and Washington's rank of General of the Armies of the United States the same?

It seems not. Public Law 94-479 (1976) reads in part the grade of General of the Armies of the United States is established (my emphasis), indicating that it's a new rank that did not previously exist. Note that the promotion of Dewey was to Admiral of the Navy, not to Admiral of the Navy of the United States [1].

But compare to the previous Senate Joint Resolution 26, 21 January 1955 which reads in part the office of General of the Armies of the United States (which office is hereby revived for this purpose)... (my emphasis). That suggests to me that this rank is the same as either Pershing's or Grant's, and probably both (as suggested by a related Wikipedia article I now can't find).

So the conclusion either way as to whether they're different ranks is dangerously close to original research, and probably doesn't belong in Wikipedia unless it can itself be sourced. But surely, that is possible?

It seems likely to remain unclear how Pershing's rank related to that proposed for Macarthur in 1945 and several times subsequent to his retirement. Any official announcement on that has been carefully avoided, as has the question of how Nimitz's proposed 1945 rank of Admiral of the Navy related to Dewey's rank of the same name. Again, that's dangerously close to original research, but again, surely it's so obvious that this is unclear that someone citeable must have said that it is?

On the other hand, Washington vs the rest of the world, and more specifically vs Pershing and vs Grant and vs the various Macarthur proposals, seem clear sort of. Washington's rank was a new one created in 1976, superior to all others and only intended to ever be held by Washington.

Perhaps it's just unfortunate wording of these and other documents that makes it seem that a different rank of the same name might have existed before. On the other hand, if it did exist, this would not be unique, see Reichsmarschall or even consider Captain. And it does seem that Pershing's rank was not automatically the same as that proposed for Macarthur, despite their having the same or similar names.

In particular, was there a previous rank of General of the Armies of the United States as opposed to General of the Armies (a rank of the United States)? Are these, together with General of the Army of the United States (Grant's rank) and General of the Army (the 1944 rank), four different ranks? If not, how many are there? How close does the equivalence of ranks need to be before they are the same rank (even if by different names)? How different before they are different ranks (even if with the same name)?

But even if there was a previous rank with the same name as Washington's 1976 appointment, it wasn't the same rank. No furher source is IMO needed to establish this as a fact. Andrewa (talk) 23:59, 14 July 2011 (UTC)