Talk:Goddess movement

/Archive 1

"suppression of ideas of the female divine"

Some loose and conspiratorial invocations of this idea can be somewhat inaccurate (especially considering that there have been some historically very male-dominant societies which nevertheless officially worshipped goddesses). However, the phrase is accurate and verifiable when it comes to ancient Jewish history, since it can clearly be seen from the text of the Bible itself that one of the items on the agenda of the prophetic movement seeking to purify Israelite religious practices in the 7th and 6th centuries B.C. was eliminating worship of goddesses. Start with passages such as Jeremiah 7:18, consult Asherah pole, etc. etc. AnonMoos (talk) 23:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

This looks like wp:or to me. The article makes no specific mention of Judaism in this regards, and if the "Cakes for the Queen of Heaven" course does make the claim that "ideas of the female divine" are "suppressed" by Judaism then a direct quotation to give the proper specific context would help. Lets not extrapolate broad generalisations while discussing a single source (apparently) dealing with a single specific culture. --Davémon (talk) 09:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Whatever -- 7th and 6th century B.C Judaism may be merely "one specific culture", but it has exerted an enormous influence on billions of individuals who lived subsequently. And when Goddess movement types make broad sweeping historical generalizations, they quite often have Judaism and Christianity at least partly in mind, and some of them are very specifically aware of the Biblical citations I mentioned above (and others). Meanwhile, the fact that there was active suppression of ideas of the female divine in one attested historical society means that it's not really a "myth" (even if its value as a grand over-arching explanation of large-scale historical change is extremely limited). AnonMoos (talk) 15:48, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Without some reliable sources to back up and clarify any of the opinions attributed to the "Cakes for the Queen of Heaven" I'd rather just see the whole statement removed. In fact, the entire "background" section seems to be very poorly sourced. Davémon (talk) 16:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Dude, did you bother to even perfunctorily scan the references I provided earlier (considering that the phrase "cakes for the Queen of Heaven" is a direct quote from Jeremiah 7:18)? AnonMoos (talk) 16:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I really don't see how:

Jeremiah 7:18 "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."

Is a citation for:

"In the 1980s and '90s, an adult education course offered by the Unitarian Universalist Church, "Cakes for the Queen of Heaven," (Ranck 1995) introduced thousands of women to what was known about the suppression of ideas the female divine, including information about supposed ancient Goddess cultures."

There seems to be a massive gulf of reasoning between these two statements. Can anyone provide a citation from a reliable source for the statements in the article? --Davémon (talk) 18:29, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

None of this has anything to do with Gylany, which is neither matriarchal nor patriarchal. Gylanic tribes, such as those that once lived on the isle of Crete (Eisler, Riane, "The Chalice and the Blade") had societies in which men and women shared social power. This is all long before Judaism and Christianity were invented and also differs from "Goddess" cultures. AlphaLobo (talk) 13:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

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I think this article would be greatly improved by presenting the Goddess as the original deity of mankind, and giving more historical and archeological info... rather than presenting the Goddess as a feminist reaction against mainstream patriarchal deities. It is also very important to point out that there is no historical basis for claims that the religion of the Goddess is for women only or is oriented towards women specifically. Some critisizm of modern feminist Goddess groups that restrict their membership to women only would be in order, especially Dianic Wicca, which almost laughably ignores the fact that Diana is a Roman goddess, and in Rome was served exclusively by MALE priests...

--Priestess Jean 06:36, 16 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Priestess Jean (talk • contribs)

That's a somewhat separate and controversial matter -- it's certainly one of the claimed roots of the modern Goddess movement, but it's not really the main subject of this article... AnonMoos (talk) 23:40, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure we should all take the word of a woman who calls herself "PRIESTESS JEAN." I think this article would be greatly improved if religious, feminist zealots were not trying to brainwash people with this "original deity" crap. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.73.184 (talk) 20:47, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

NPOV removed

I've removed the NPOV template, please use {{POV-section}} or better yet {{POV-statement}} for sentences, then detail issues here. This will help address them in a timely manner. - RoyBoy 16:41, 17 December 2011 (UTC)