Talk:Hate group

64.7.166.43

64.7.166.43 made an addition I thought was not needed, perhaps soapboxy, so I reverted. He reverted my revert. So I went to his Talk page and left a very polite message about WP:BRD. His talk page was notable for all the warnings about bad editing on it. I was the only one who did not leave a warning. Anyway, he responded with personal attack. Therefore, I am bringing this matter to the talk page here. Setting aside any procedural violations, his substantive edit is not appropriate for this article. Will someone please look into this and act accordingly? Thanks. I'll be practicing 1RR for a while so I won't revert it myself. Thanks again. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 04:24, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Why harp on the contents of my talk page here? And what personal attack? Jesus. This is the talk page for this article. Leave my talk page out of it. Seriously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.7.166.43 (talk) 04:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Being ANONYMOUS and telling a USER with an ACCOUNT what they should do is far enough out of line in any situation. It doesn't matter if you disagree with him, take his advice instead of doing exactly what he suggested not to do, because his point is certainly more valid than yours. As for your edit, it looks legit, but still, someone obviously has a different opinion. Suck it up. Cheerio. ProudlyAnon (talk) 19:45, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

So hate groups only exist in the USA?

Really? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.242.150.103 (talk) 02:38, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I have tagged it for globalisation. --DanielRigal (talk) 13:49, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

is hate a great soical network will find it very amuzing to be here on the page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.25.41.113 (talk) 22:24, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Scope of definition

• includes those having beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people

Does this include churches which say that homosexuality is sinful, based on the church's interpretation of scripture? I mean, do SCLC or others assert that holding the view that homosexuality is sinful constitutes an "attack" on all homosexuals, or a "belief which maligns" all homosexuals? And does such an assertion depend on which side the asserter takes in the contorversy over whether homosexuality is immutable? --Uncle Ed (talk) 19:28, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Who knows? The SPLC site says

• All hate groups have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics.[1]

The text above appears to be an accurate summary of the source. It's beyond the scope of this talk page to figure out how or why they arrive at these designations. We're just here to verifiably summarize reliable sources using the neutral point of view. If there are more sources we can add to the mix then all the better. But I dn't see any problem with the text as written.   Will Beback  talk  21:50, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

More details can be found at [2] and the various links off of that site. My read is that the SPLC makes a distinction between groups (i.e. established religions) that make a biblical interpretation that homosexuality is a sin and primarily target their congregations versus those fringe groups that actively propagate their views in the political arena, using extremist language and proposals such as deportation and criminalization, while relying on myths such as those at [3] that go well beyond simply "because God said so". Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 23:34, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt answers. That will help me, as I contribute to this article (or related articles). --Uncle Ed (talk) 00:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

The definition given in this article is subjective and based on erroneous material from private fund-raising organizations. The wording, in particular, is imprecise and subjective:

"A hate group is an organized group or movement that advocates and practices hatred, hostility, or violence towards members of a race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation or other designated sector of society."

What does "organized" mean? How many members make up such an organization? Does the group need to hold meetings, pay dues, have a charter? "Hatred" and "hostility" are similarly subjective. If a New York Yankees fan has a "Beat the Red Sox" bumper sticker on his car has he "advocated hatred, hostility and/or violence"? Since the Yankees are organized, does this make them a "hate group" too?

Who exactly "designates" the protected sectors of society?

The Southern Poverty Law Center is a private fund-raising organization which is subject to no external oversight and has no mandate, legal or moral, to designate anyone as anything. If you're going to hold up the SPLC as some sort of experts on "hate groups," you might want to know what they actually have to say on the topic. The SPLC's Public Relations man Mark Potok states that:

“…a “hate group” has nothing to do with criminality… [or] potential for violence…” Rather, as Potok put it, “It’s all about ideology.” This pretty much negates the opening definition of this article.

On May 17, 2002, Mr. Potok told USA Today, “The FBI does not monitor groups just because they have “hateful” ideology. There must be some evidence of criminal wrongdoing.“

The FBI website says, "Investigations are conducted only when a threat or advocacy of force is made; when the group has the apparent ability to carry out the proclaimed act; and when the act would constitute a potential violation of federal law."

There's nothing here concerning ideology.

As mentioned in the article, Mr. Potok states that “Hate group activities can include criminal acts, marches, rallies, speeches, meetings, leafleting or publishing.” Other than "criminal acts," all of the other activities are Constitutionally protected rights, whether we agree with the content or not. Just because the SPLC doesn't like what you have to say does not in any way give them authority to designate anyone as anything.

On March 25, 2009, Potok was quoted in the San Luis Obispo Tribune, “Potok says inclusion on the list might come from a minor presence, such as a post office box.” Is THIS the scrupulously high standard of "organized"? A PO box?

This entire article needs to be rewritten in objective and factual terms, not someone's opinion of what a "hate group" should be, and certainly not based on the spurious fund-raising propaganda of the SPLC, which uses this kind of subjective language to garner tens of millions of donor-dollars a year. Richardkeefe57 (talk) 11:50, 1 September 2011 (UTC)