Talk:History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt

I have posted an entirely new text for the Muslim Brotherhood and Hassan al Banna articles, as well as several new articles:

• History the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt
  • History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1928-1938)
  • History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1939-1954)
  • History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1954-present)
• History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria

This amounts to over 12,000 words of text, and is the result of months of research, discussed in Talk:Muslim_Brotherhood, using reputable scholarly texts found at the library of the School of Oriental and African Studies at the University of London. Every paragraph in the main articles is marked with page-number references to the work it is based on.

I am not an expert on this subject, and nothing in these articles is original; I have simply summarised the material in the sources listed. Some of the sources are more favourable to the Muslim Brotherhood; others are more critical. By attempting to represent accurately the accounts given in these sources, I hope to have produced a set of articles that members of the Brotherhood, as well as well-informed critics of the organisation, could see as fair and balanced. However, these articles may well contain errors; if you believe that anything in the text is inaccurate, please correct it, referencing your sources, and leave a note here about the change.

If you are new to this subject, as I was when I began this process, please be aware that a great deal of misinformation can be found on the Internet, and in the press, about the Muslim Brotherhood. In order to keep these articles reliable and neutral, I suggest that, as far as possible, like my humble contributions, all contributions should be based on reputable academic texts by specialists in the field; journalistic sources should only be used for current events, and only if they appear in major national or international news outlets, preferably when the same information is reported by several sources. It is my hope that this policy will enable Wikipedia to be a more reliable source of information about the Muslim Brotherhood than much of what can be found on the Internet.

A few words about my own motivations for doing this: I am not a Muslim, but I respect Islam and I am opposed to imperialism. Although I am certainly not very knowledgeable about Islam, it seems to me that Western misunderstandings about Islam and the Muslim world are contributing to tragic conflicts, and that people need knowledge and understanding of one another in order to live in harmony. I hope that Wikipedia can be a small contribution to that goal, and that people who know more about this subject than I do will improve on this work.

--Beroul 21:06, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

This is excellent work Beroul. I wanted to remark that the sentence in the final paragraph about the student movements being independent from the Brotherhood is not enitrely true. As one who has been to college in Egypt, I know that the heads of the student groups in college were often junior members in the Brotherhood and at times, directions came from above with regards to what to do. One obvious example is when the government would actually declare 90% of their candidates for student offices as illegitimate just a day before the student body elections. They would go to court and get a temporary order to delay the elections or reinstate their candidates and so forth. This is not something your average 20 year old knows how to do.

--Karlosian 07:29, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Many thanks for your encouragement and help, Karlosian. Your observations of student groups are interesting; unfortunately we can't use them as such, since original research isn't allowed on Wikipedia. Do you know of any academic texts that deal with this? About your edit regarding the secret apparatus, I'm not sure I understand: do you mean that the existence of the secret apparatus hasn't been proven, or that it hasn't been proven that Banna accepted the creation of the secret apparatus? (Or that he accepted it reluctantly?) Can you elaborate on what's doubtful here, and point me to academic sources where I can learn more? About the attempted assassination of Nasser, I'm not sure what we should say here in the summary. In the main article, I've mentioned the idea that Nasser may have had his assassination attempt staged. Do you think we should mention this point in the summary? The wording you added, "was named as the perpetrator", seems too vague to me: named by whom? Also, he wasn't just named, he was hanged as well. I've changed this to "convicted of an assassination attempt", but I'm not sure this is the best wording. What do you think? --Beroul 12:17, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

I was referring to how well Hassan Al-Banna knew of the Secret Aparatus and how much was his idea vs how much he was "forced" into. I have read (in Arabic) opinions from all sides of the debate. Those who absolve him from ever founding such a device and those who see him as a pragmatic leader not above doing such a thing and neither side provide documented proof that he knew of it or that he did not approve of it. I'll see what I can find.

With regards to the assassination attempt, try something like "accused by authorities." Basically, just point out that it was the official accusation, not necessarily the opinion of historians. --Karlosian 11:09, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification; I've changed the wording on the assassination attempt to "accused by the authorities", and tried to clarify the wording about the creation of the secret apparatus so it reflects these doubts. It would be great if you could add references to studies in Arabic. Unfortunately my Arabic isn't yet good enough to enable me to read them myself. --Beroul 12:24, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the following:

Anwar al-Sadat was later assasinated by four members of the Brotherhood. FAS

First, because it's a web source, and web sources are not reliable as far as controversial subjects are concerned. Second, because it's incorrect; according to reputable printed academic texts such as Gilles Kepel's The Prophet and Pharaoh (ISBN 0520239342), Sadat was assassinated by the group Al-Jihad. --Beroul 08:55, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Divisions within the Brotherhood

I've been trying to learn about the history of the Muslim Brotherhood in light of the ongoing popular revolt in Egypt and the likelihood that the MB will be part of whatever post-Mubarak government emerges from the present chaos. One useful source I found was this article from Infantry magazine, which appears to be affiliated with the US Army. In it, Youssef Aboul-Enein (then a Lt. Cmdr. in the US Navy, but subsequently promoted) surveys the work of Egyptian Gen. Fuad Alam, whom Aboul-Enein describes as having "spent over three decades investigating Islamic militants, rising to Chief of Religious (Militant) Affairs in Egypt's Interior Ministry, the section of national security investigations." One key element in Aboul-Enein's survey, which is only partly reflected in Wikipedia's articles, is his explanation of the divisions within the Brotherhood after the 1954 assassination attempt on Nasser:

After the failed assassination of Nasser in 1954, the Egyptian strongman bore down on the Muslim Brotherhood. Many fled to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf and would later reemerge in the 1970s, but those who stayed in Egypt saw the Islamist organization split into three elements. The most violent, the Qutbists named after Sayed Qutb would form an ideological foundation of today's Islamic militants. The following is the breakdown of the three main factions:

• Al-Banaeeun (The Bannaists): Named after Hassan Al-Banna, the original founders of the Muslim Brotherhood. They advocated the status-quo and social work as a means of attracting Egyptians to their ranks.

• Al-Hudaibeeun (The Hudaybeeists): Named after the Supreme Guide of the brotherhood during Nasser and Sadat's period, Hassan Al-Hudaibee. They espoused a new vision of working within the framework of Egypt's constitution and government system to gain power in parliament, unions and guilds as well as within the universities and schools.

• Al-Qutbeeun (The Qutbists): The new young faction of the Muslim Brotherhood who preached that the Egyptian regime was in an anti-Islamic state of jahiliyah and that waging jihad on the state was the only means of cleansing Egypt of sin. They were stimulated by the writings of Sayid Qutb and held up his book Maalim (Guideposts) as the strategy the Muslim Brotherhood must adopt.

Based on various Internet sources I've read during the past week, my impression is that, contra the fearmongering of some American commentators, the modern Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt draws predominantly from the Bannaist and Hudaybeeist strands, and not from the Qutbists (who are, of course, the intellectual ancestors of al-Qaeda). Since I'm just a layman trying to get a better understanding of current events, I don't feel certain enough about the objectivity and accuracy of this source to incorporate it here or at History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1954–present). But I will offer up this material so that more expert contributors can evaluate it and incorporate it if appropriate. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 16:31, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Rename article

With post-revolutionary elections coming up and recent legalization, I am going to expand the article and change the name to Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. -BoogaLouie (talk) 22:11, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Closed. The proposed article was created. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:26, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt → Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt – Muslim Brotherhood is now legal in Egypt thanks to the 2011 Revolution and so its current political activity is much more relevent. Group is considered the best or second best organized political group in Egypt and a major political player in that country. In short the Egyptian Brotherhood deserves its own article of which the Brotherhood's history can be a section or if necessary forked off again. (There are already History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1954-present) and History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1939–1954) and History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1928–1938) articles so that might not be necessary!) BoogaLouie (talk) 18:58, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

• Comment. Why can't there also be a general "History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt" article that summarizes the different Muslim Brotherhood history articles? Quigley (talk) 19:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. The impetus for the nomination is spot on. There needs to be a free-standing article on the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (the current Muslim Brotherhood is obviously too wide in scope for this purpose. However, the current History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt article is almost exclusively about just that, the history. Leave this article title alone and create a new article at Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt or something similar. —  AjaxSmack  13:51, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Well I disagree (As I say if you like history articles there are already these two articles: History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1954-present) and History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1939–1954)), but it looks like I'm outnumbered, so a separate Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt article it is. --BoogaLouie (talk) 14:12, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Splintering in the Muslim Brotherhood

I have seen it mentioned in the news, but not here. I have some information, but am not the best writer. A section needs to be added about this. Lionheart Omega (talk) 00:57, 18 July 2011 (UTC)