Talk:Honor killing

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South America

What happened to the section on South America? Why has this turned into a Muslim country only article when it didn't used to be? Baalthazaq (talk) 07:00, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm South American and I'm a very interested one, but I will not make editions because I know it will become contamined with POV. So, please, other Wikipedians, take care of it to me?

I see very few repercussion on honor killings in Brazil accross the world. They are really quite common in rural areas when someone have LGBT kids (in our urban areas we have lots of hate groups influenced by this extreme macho culture, white power skinhead is just too recent and not-deeply-rooted-in-South-America-as-in-White-majority-West to make its sadly common occurrence responsible only by they as media blames), and honor killings by girls having premarital sex just stopped of happening thanks to our heterosexual-only late sexual liberation (since it is so less taboo in big cities than homosexual relationships and it affects and changes the point of view of people in minor cities and rural areas). There's not a plan to change their minds, proposals of including LGBT themes in sexual education widespread just have failed due to conservative agenda in government and low support of population (certain sectors of society still use out-of-date information about these themes to make everybody think about "how it will promote homosexualism (sic) to youth"). LGBT visibility exists, actually it is present in most of our culture even in more sexist areas, but with exaggerated stereotypes even in places where it "should not be" like Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo middle classes and youth (I'm suspect to say because the rivalry between the metropolises is gaining fame around the world, but in São Paulo people are much more conservative than in Rio, just ask any Brazilian leftist).

Sometimes I think that this massive portrayal of Middle East as a super sexist "barbarian" culture when everything we see there have ever existed also in Latin America represents some evil purposes masked with efforts to "westernize" and "civilizate" them (this idea in itself is evil, reactionary, retrograde, racist, it is hard to find so many offenses to describe it, but seems to be a consensus among the people who believe in a clash of civilizations and the potential Islamization of Europe blablablablablabla everybody saw the consequences of this kind of thought this year). Hahaha, a certain patriarchal religion that maximizes sexism here and is used to all sophistry to justificates the status quo in which tons of people are brutally killed and do not cares if millions of teenagers have feelings of isolation, loneliness, guilt and shame as well depression while there's a LGBT-friendly world outside our ridiculous unreported nutshell is not Islam. Domestic violence against women happens 4 times in 2 minutes here, it was on Globo's broadcast television yesterday.

At least 20.000 Latin American women dies per year in consequences of illegal abortions since we have backward laws and according to WikiLeaks 5 MILLION of such cases occured in Brazil from 1985 to 2005, but it puts in high risks only the poor. What are the responses of Catholic Church and conservative-majority Protestant segment? Put pressure on government to pro-choice laws being out-of-cogitation and make even unbrained fetuses and sons of rape protected as borned human beings (Sociology don't tell people that without culture we're just primates? Strangely enough, this same very persons are not used to animal rights that way). Just search, it is called Estatuto do Nascituro. Your womb? This does not belong to you mooooooooooooar! Laïcité was just killed, but it is not our Constitution? What about West and its values looking at less developed countries for respect to human rights and feminism? Now everything sounds hypocrate much to me. Christianity better than Islam? Only neonazi and redneck shit will think that way. Lguipontes (talk) 11:47, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposal for Changes/Additions

I would agree that more needs to be added regarding South America. In addition, I am working on adding in more statistics for the regions already mentioned in the article and more historical, religious, and cultural influences for the prevalence of honor killings. Feedback is welcomed. B.chachere (talk) 00:44, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Middle East Forum

I have had a look at their website and it doesn't look like a reliable source to me. PatGallacher (talk) 12:02, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Could someone reword this -

It is thus believed that it is not Islam as a religion, but Islamic culture, and the prominent and long-standing view that women are considered property, as the sources of for honor killings

It sounds like "Islamic culture" and "women considered property" are merged here, when this generalization is not true. We know in places like India and other south asian countries, aswell as other places around the world, "women are also considered properties". Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.161.196 (talk) 22:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

No place for Males against it?

Now maybe "Definition" is not the best place for this information which Jayjg removed as WP:UNDUE and WP:NOTNEWS.

In 2010 Israeli Arab member of Parliament Ahmad Tibi proposed banning public media and law enforcement from using terms like "honor killing" or "crime of passion" to describe murders of women because it conveyed "positive characteristics to murder, send encouraging and sympathetic messages about violence." REF:Jonathan Lis Tags, Israel Arab MK: No murders should ever be called 'honor killing', [[Haaretz], October 11, 2010.

But obviously if it's notable in the "Culture" section that female academics are against it, it's equally notable that a male Arab member of the Israeli parliament is against it. What's needed is more information about more males of whatever culture who have spoken out against it. Anyone disagree? CarolMooreDC 21:45, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

A couple of years ago one member of Parliament of one small country proposed banning use of the term. Politicians say things all the time, and given that the country has a free press, it had no chance of going anywhere anyway. This is obviously the exact opposite of notable. Please review WP:NOTNEWSPAPER too. If some country ever passes legislation like this, then we'll have something to discuss here. Jayjg ^(talk) 23:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

You are not responsive to my new insight and comment based on your deletion, only repeating your edit summary. The issue is various males speaking out against the practice, in whatever way they do. I can see one just hanging loose without a larger context is problematic. However, four or five males of various statures opposing obviously would be appropriate for such an article. CarolMooreDC 01:14, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Is there an "issue" of "various males speaking out against the practice"? How do you know this? Do you have some reliable source indicating that this is some sort of "issue"? Jayjg ^(talk) 03:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Gosh, it never occurred to me that [later added to clarify: many] males would not [later clarify: speak out against honor killing]! Anyway, found some interesting WP:RS leads earlier that led to my posts; will pursue soon. CarolMooreDC 03:53, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

"males would not?" Sorry, I can make neither head nor tail of what you're saying. Jayjg ^(talk) 04:55, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, after your "later clarify" additions above, I'm still mystified. What are you going on about? Jayjg ^(talk) 14:55, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Let's not discuss generalities. It will be clear when new material entered. CarolMooreDC 03:46, 14 January 2012 (UTC)