Talk:Hopi language

The link to the Hopi Literacy Project seems dead, should it be removed?

--babbage 00:52, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

phonology questions: dialect issues?

Hi. This description here of the sound system is a little different from Whorf's description. For example, the back velars are not uvular: they are velar. (Also, uvular sounds are not reconstructed for Proto-Uto-Aztecan, which doesnt necessarily mean anything, but I then wonder where the uvulars come from.) So, I wonder if this is a misreading of Whorf (since Whorf is cited in the biblio). But, maybe it's dialectal variation. Also what of the preaspirated consonants, voiceless sonorants, etc.? – ishwar  (speak) 19:12, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what Whorf writes but Hopi has Uvular stops. Uvular stops are a reflex of pua *k before *o and *a. Pua *k is reflected as k before i ɨ and u.·Maunus·ƛ· 19:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah yes Whorf did reconstruct two velar stops for PUA a fronted k and a normal one and he posited the fronted k as a reflex of fronted k and q as a reflex of normal k. However this contrast is not attested in any other UA language.·Maunus·ƛ· 19:59, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Whorf's description of q is "velar" (as well as aspirated q, ŋ, and Ŋ) and k is in a column labeled "pre-palatal and palatal" along with preaspirated k, ɲ, y, and Y (voiceless y). In a third column, he lists kʷ, aspirated kʷ, ŋʷ as "labialized palatal".

C. F. Voegelin describes k as "front" and q as "back" and in a partly complementary distribution. He says the contrast between ka and qa is due more to the presence of a palatalized k, which he describes as a prevocalic y-glide and symbolizes as [kʸa], than a difference in backness. A sentence later he characterized q as "the not-so-far-back /q/".

Finally, there is third k sound in some dialects that occurs in some Spanish loanwords where the (front) k is not followed by the y glide in a ka sequence. That is, a contrast between borrowed [ka] and native [kʸa]. Whorf writes this borrowed k as ḳ as calls it "ordinary k" and places it in parentheses inside the "pre-palatal and palatal" column.

These two sources seems to indicate a palatal vs. velar contrast.

Finally, I found a published letter of Whorf's where he says that Second Mesa k is not like English k but sounds like ky. However, in this letter he uses the term "velar" to describe Hopi q and compares it to Arabic and Nootka q (which are both uvulars). He also says that Hopi ŋ is like English ŋ in hang "but more velar".

This seems to suggest a palatal (or pre-velar) vs. uvular contrast. And also that the term "velar" in the other Whorf source be interpreted as = uvular. (And other contemporary linguists, e.g. Harry Hoijer's description of Navajo, use the term "front palatal" = palatal, "back palatal" = velar.)

So, what do other sources say? And what are those sources? – ishwar  (speak) 20:43, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Laverne Jeanne's dissertation (MIT 1978) says that /q/ and /qʷ/ are dorso-velar and backed and opposed to k which is dorso-velar and "neutral" and /kʲ/ which is apico velar and fronted.·Maunus·ƛ· 05:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I didnt think to look that up. Well, it's still not so clear that q has a dorsum-uvula contact. It may or may not. It's kinda interesting that there are three different places that are so close together but still contrastive (although the glide after fronted k helps). – ishwar  (speak) 16:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

No it is a little unclear so I changed the text to dorso-velar instead of uvular.·Maunus·ƛ· 16:13, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

What do you think about the orthography in the chart? It is only for 3rd Mesa. 2nd Mesa has more consonants (the geminates in other UtoAztecan are realized as preaspirated stops or voiceless sonorants). Since the dictionaries of Hopi are only of 3rd Mesa, there doesnt seem to be orthographic conventions for 2nd Mesa consonants.

I was thinking of presenting two charts for each inventory or taking out orthography all together or just not having corresponding orthography symbols for the 2nd Mesa consonants. – ishwar  (speak) 04:54, 10 August 2008 (UTC)