Talk:Hungarian language

The article says: The reforms led[citation needed] to the installment of Hungarian as the official language over Latin in the multiethnic country in 1844.

However, Latin was never the official language in Hungary, it was German since Hungary was a colony of Austria. This sentence should replace Latin with German.

Lexicon and loanwords

| A few months back I added this statement to the Lexicon section:

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Therefore the history of Hungarian has come, especially since the 19th century, to favor neologisms from original bases, whilst still having developed as many terms from neighboring languages in the lexicon.

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This was added upon reviewing the sources cited in that section which include the list of vocabulary origins and loanwords. I also kept in mind the factors of historical purism in Hungarian during the 19th century, as well as the conservative nature of the grammar as contributing to the argument that Hungarian has become a more purist language than most in Central Europe.

I do find the statistic of "80%" of the lexicon being Uralic hard to believe; not even German and Lithuanian could have such a high percentage of native words over loans, but I assume the findings of that research stand.

What's the consensus here on my addition? Should it be supported with citations or do the above sources already work?| CormanoSanchez (talk) 16:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

There is definitely no way there is 80% of the lexicon being Uralic. --130.156.22.43 (talk) 18:18, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

|Yes; I believe a reasonable estimate would be 25% Uralic, 30% at most|CormanoSanchez (talk) 15:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Jurchen Mogher and Magyar: Tungusic elements

There is an interesting study showing the comparison of the ancient Jurchen language with Hungarian and Mongolian. I think it is worth taking a look at. http://www.iacd.or.kr/pdf/journal/04/4-02.pdf

The presence of Tungusic words in Hungarian cannot be explained by the "Uralic Theory". Even if it were assumed that Magyars borrowed words from Turks, many of these Tungusic words (also the same in Manchu) are different than in Turkic, so how Hungarian shares these words is unexplainable by this theory. The Xianbei and Xiongnu not only had cultural exchanges, but genetic ones as well. The Xianbei were also a Tungusic-speaking people. I wonder if this could explain the similarities. --Xiaogoudelaohu (talk) 06:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Well I'm curious about any explanation of the origin of the Hungarian language, but I think this article is nonsense. It compares random words that are arbitrarily suffixed and uses compund words and obscure correspondences. One would need to compare basic words, roots and stems, not full words that are similar by chance. For example (but there are many similar):

• bariso - birkózó (wrestler):

  birkózó is in fact bír (to bear, to cope with) + -kózik (reflexive, or "each-other" suffix) + -ó (-er, -ing). It is not one word.

• noshen - összhang (harmony, accordance)

  összhang is a compound of össz (all, each) and hang (sound). I think it is not an ancient compound either.

The list is full of such mistakes, and therefore I say it is not even worth mentioning. Qorilla (talk) 14:13, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting it should be added, I just posted it here in the discussion for others to contemplate. I have seen a couple other essays which had Manchurian words that are definitely related such as "beteg" (ill), "kanal" (spoon) "hamar" (quickly) "oldal" (side) and "Bereny". As I stated before, the presence of these words in Hungarian cannot be explained by saying they are loan words from Turkic, as is often the rationale given for related Mongolian words in Hungarian. The mention of related Tungusic words in other essays can be found at: http://helimski.com/2.170.PDF as well as on page 49 at: http://www.federatio.org/mi_per/Mikes_International_0108.pdf --Xiaogoudelaohu (talk) 10:45, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

"unrelated to most other languages in Europe"

This statement seems an anachronism from Cold War times when we in the West were quite ignorant of what lay beyond the borders of the Soviet Union. Actually if Hungarian is related to Finnish it must also be related to Karelian, Estonian, Udmurt, Mari and other languages still spoken in the Baltic countries and in European Russia. LADave (talk) 17:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, that certainly is not a comprehensive list of most European languages. 220.253.216.28 (talk) 06:09, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Magyars or Hungarians

In Hungary there lives many nations: Magyars, Slovaks, etc. There are not "Hun" people. There are many languages. There is not Hungarian language. There are Magyar, Slovak, Roman (or Romanian), etc. --195.228.142.2 (talk) 10:27, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Huns, sycthians (szittya in Hungarian, the latin name of the huns), magyars means the same nation. Because the nature of the dualist culture (the important "things" also had opponents in the legends and even in the leadership, like the "kende" and the "gyula", and Honőr (Hunor) and Magőr (Magor) of the legendaric ancestors of the Huns and Magyars. Fehér János aka Aries (talk) 21:30, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The word Hungarian comprehends the Hungarian nations and the Hungarian languages. Magyar is the official language of Magyarország (Hungary), but the word ″Magyar″ is not equal with the word Hungarian. In Hungary there are many nations and languages, but the main population of the country is the Magyars. Certainly in the country there are some other ethnic minority (cigány, tóth, székely, etc). I am Magyar, no need to explain to me what does it mean. Excuse me, you are in wrong about this. Huns, sycthians (szittya in Hungarian, the latin name of the huns), magyars doesn't mean the same nation! In Hungary we teach our history, and we know our history. Yours sincerely, Krisztian 195.228.142.2 (talk) 09:42, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

I did not revert your edit because it was factually incorrect, but because it was not really relevant to the description of the hungarian language that there are also other languages in Hungary, it was not very well written and it was out of style for an encyclopedia. ·Maunus·ƛ· 09:33, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

OK, then please, correct this according to the relity. Thank you. 195.228.142.2 (talk) 09:44, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

This article isn't about ethnic groups in Hungary. That information belongs in the article Hungary, not here. This article is just about the Hungarian language. The word "Magyar" has three different, distinct meanings: 1) An ethnic Hungarian (whether he/she still speaks Hungarian or not), 2) A citizen of Hungary (whether he/she is ethnically Hungarian or not), 3) The Hungarian language. In this article, the word only refers to the name of the language, not to either the ethnicity or the citizenship, so the discussion of "Not all Magyars (citizens of Hungary or ethnically Hungarian) speak Hungarian" is really moot. --Taivo (talk) 12:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the Hungarian people speak Magyar, Lovári, Beás, Szlovák, etc., and all Magyars speak Magyar.