Talk:Independent school

Initial comments

The term "independent school" is increasingly used interchangeably with "private school" in the US. For all practical purposes, a private school is an independent school, and vice versa. "Independent school" seems to be gaining in current usage. Some institutions refer to themselves as "independent schools" because they feel the term "private school" has elitist overtones (in the southern United States, some private schools were founded to educate white students). Today, of course, most independent schools have an active policy of non-discrimination and in many cases are more diverse than neighboring public schools.

It is important to note that "private school" does NOT necessarily imply a for-profit school; most private high schools in the US are not for profit institutions.

• Hello! Please sign your talk comments by typing ~~~~, as those four tildes are magically transformed into your signature. Also, "private school" and "independent school" are not interchangeable; private schools operated by churches are not, under the appropriate definition, independent schools. See this National Association of Independent Schools FAQ entry for details. Will Hester (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

In some areas, the term "independent school" is synonymous with "prep school." The Conference of Independent Schools in Canada, for example, consists only of such schools. Writerchick 11:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Though the terms independent school and private school are often used interchangably in the U.S. and Canada, the latter term has elitist connotations for many and the term independent school has been popularized since the 1970s

This phrase sounds too much like a POV. Anyone care to clean it up? --204.152.176.70 21:27, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

confusion

I can't tell: is the definition of public school different in scotland, or is the writer of this article, and the one on Finlay Macdonald, using commas differently than I'm used to??? 71.232.91.1 21:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Independent vs Private

If independent is the "new" term to use, then does it make "public" schools, "dependent" schools? Private schools are "elitest." Seems like an attempt to whitewash elitest "privilege."—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

• I just moved the following editing-related comment, by new user Louistheripper, off the article page: Private School should redirect here, however since it doesn't we apologize for any inconvenience. This appears to be a request for continuation of the above discussion. --Orlady 16:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

This article is a mess

The term "independent" is widely used in the United States, however, it's meaning is anything but clear. Is this term also widely used outside the United States? This article needs a lot of work. --TMH (talk) 22:21, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Just came across it. It is indeed a mess. The first par of the lead, for example ("An independent school is . . . not dependent upon national or local government for financing . . .") appears to be, on the face of it, contradicted by its final paragraph: "In Sweden, pupils are free to choose a private school and the private school gets paid the same amount as municipal schools." Unable to resist the thought that this article's most energetic contributor(s) thus far might have benefited from a proper education. Wingspeed (talk) 02:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Private and independent

We have an article titled private school and another titled independent school, and it seems unclear that they're about two different topics. Should they get merged? Michael Hardy (talk) 01:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Independent vs. Private

A Public School get funding from the public (ie. government taxes)
A Private School gets it's funding from the private sector (ie. corporations, charities or parents)
An Independent School gets some, or all, it's funding from the government but it's school board runs independent of the public school board.
I hope this clears the difference... the two should be seperate and applied properly to the various schools. --Iota 9 (talk) 08:02, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I don’t know where you are based, but your definitions aren’t global by any means: a Public School in the U.K., for example is a school that is in the hands of the public (that is, privately owned), as opposed to a State School, which is operated by the State, and paid for by taxes; there may be distinctions between them in a technical sense of which I am unaware, but to the population at large, “Public” and “Private” have therefore been used interchangeably in the U.K., and never mean state funded. I was actually surprised that the article doesn’t include any mention that I have seen of the British sense of public school, which I’d expect in an article on private/ independent schools. Jock123 (talk) 10:39, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Public versus independent revisited

Trying to make some sense of this private school versus independent school mess I've composed the following table:

Governed by state?
Yes ("state school")	No ("non-state school")
	Mainly funded by public means	Mainly funded by tuitions
"public school"	"charter school"	"private school"
"maintained school"	"academy"	"public school" or "independent school"

The table is not meant to be exhaustive, there are certainly many additional names for the six types of schools listed above. Also, terms in the United Kingdom outside of England are often different from the ones listed above.

Now, I'm pretty sure that the term "private school" can be used unambiguously (in both American and British English) to refer to a school not run by the government and primarily funded through tuitions, endowments or some other non-taxation source. The term "independent school" is ambiguous, it might be used as a synonym for such "private schools", or it might be used for a school not under direct government, regardless of whether it is funded by public means or not.

Therefore, I suggest keeping the article presently titled "private school" where it is, and retaining its focus on tuition-funded schools (even if such schools are often nowadays referred to as "independent schools"). I further suggest moving the article "independent school" to "non-state school" and having it focused on schools not run by the state, including both publicly-funded autonomous schools (such as charter schools and academies) and tuition-funded schools. Gabbe (talk) 18:39, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose. There is a difference in England between an independent school and a private school. Private school implies a school run for profit either by an individual or a limited liability company. An independent school can encompass those, but it also includes charity schools which is what many of the the public schools are. -- PBS (talk) 10:02, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I think you are misunderstanding what academy schools are. They are free to the kids that go to them. They are part funded by other organisations other than the state (but not necessarily with cash), but from the point of view of the kids and their parents they are just another option on the tick form at the end of primary school, and the are state schools. They are however free from local government fiddling and are/were a cunning plan by central government to weaken local government. see Academy (English school). -- PBS (talk) 10:17, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Please explain why "independent school" can not be used be used unambiguously by Americans. -- PBS (talk) 10:17, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

UN Convention stuff

I've cut the following from the article:

==United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child==

Article 29 - "Article 29 (of the Convention on the Rights of the Child) claims to limit the right of parents and others to educate children in private school by requiring that all such schools support both the charter and principles of the United Nations and a list of specific values and ideals. By contrast, United States Supreme Court case law has provided that a combination of parental rights and religious liberties provide a broader right of parents and private schools to control the values and curriculum of private education free from State interference."

It is unclear what is being said. Is this a quote from Smolin or what? At best it is off WP:TOPIC. At worse we have WP:POV. Anyone wish to clarify?--S. Rich (talk) 00:10, 25 September 2010 (UTC)