Talk:Ironic (song)

Verbal irony

The one instance of irony I found in the song was Mr Play-It-Safe's sarcastic dying thought: "Well, isn't this nice?" That's gotta count as verbal irony. 222.155.148.253 09:27, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, don't even bother. The official meme is "Isn't It Ironic" doesn't contain irony, and pointing out the many definitions of irony, and the fact that Morissette's song uses them, will not make a dent in the pseudo-certainty of all the scolds and school marms and linguistic retards out there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.85.125.152 (talk • contribs) 06:21, 6 April 2007

I think the best example of irony in the song is "Uh, yeah, I really do think..." - listen to the tone of voice as she refers to her "definitions". Unfortunately, Miss Morissette should have known better. History shows that irony is essentially misunderstood. Which is rather ironic, when you think about it.~ 208.179.21.221 23:39, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

This is as close to the truth as i've found so far on this discussion page. While A.M. admits that she didn't think of any of this consciously while composing the song, maybe her writing partner did. The central lines of the chorus are Isn't it ironic / Don't you think? which are totally ironic in the strictest literary sense of "A statement in which the implied meaning is the opposite of the actual meaning. "Isn't it X" is something you say to someone to communicate "It is X," and "Don't you think" qualifies the statement with the meaning "I'm sure you agree." On the other end of the chorus "Who would've thought, it figures" when reapplied to the first two lines could be intended to flip the meaning in a sort of meta-irony. Read it "It ISN'T ironic. You don't think." Who-would've-thought-that-it-actually-figures, *especially* when everybody criticizes the song for it's lack of irony? --PopeFauveXXIII (talk) 18:37, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Also, i just checked the dates, Reality Bites came out a full 2 years before this song. I think that's a pretty compelling piece of evidence. --PopeFauveXXIII (talk) 18:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Grammar Nazis

There is one article defending this song pretty well, but I forget where it is. Ironic is so broad and vague that it seems whenever you say something is Ironic someone is there to tell you it isn't. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.75.180.31 (talk) 00:12, 12 April 2007 (UTC).

That may perhaps be true; however that isn't tantamount to an argument against the demonstration of Morissette using the word incorrectly, which might be one of the much less equivocal cases. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.12.144.21 (talk • contribs) 05:56, 31 October 2007

I concur that the criticism of the usage of the term ironic in the eponymous song before us is an egregious case of grammar fascism. My stolid Duden defines irony (in German) as: a paradox constellation which might be interpreted as the frivolous tinkering of a higher power, e. g. an irony of fate or history. I would thus encourage the detractors to acquire a fornicatin' life. Maikel (talk) 14:48, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Malapropism Queen?

Isn't Alanis calling herself a "Malapropism Queen" a misuse of the word "malapropism" just as much as the entire song is a misuse of the word "ironic"? A malapropism is the use of a like-sounding but inappropriate word. Saying "ironic" when one means "iron" would be a malapropism. Use of the word "ironic" to describe the events in Ironic is simply incorrect usage, not a malapropism. It is likely not ironic that she uses another word incorrectly when describing how she used "ironic" incorrectly, but it is perhaps amusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.242.212 (talk) 05:38, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree with this, or with the additional sentence added to the article saying it's not a malapropism. Not all malapropisms have to be because of a phonetic confusion. It could be "The word that is used means something different from the word the speaker or writer intended to use." See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malapropism#Distinguishing_features. If one misunderstands the definition of "ironic" to be "anything unfortunate" and then uses it as such, I believe that is a malapropism. Or, to more precisely fit the definition, the word used (ironic) means something different from the word she intended to use (unfortunate). Xargque (talk) 20:18, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I do agree with 24.6.... The link Xargque gives to the definition explains, precisely, and contrary to his/her contention, that part of the essence of a malapropism is the aural confusion: It's the first of three requirements given. Her (Morissette's) use of malapropism is thus an ironic comment on the quality of her education ~ in a country where i also received much of mine; i'm guessing we didn't go to the same schools. To draw this back to the article (purpose of this Talk page), her self-reference as the "MQ" is thus appropriate. Cheers, Lindsay^Hi 07:03, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Define Ironic

Okay so obviously some examples of irony are obviously more apparent than others, such as if Iron Man was anemic. Irony is primarily broken down into three: Dramatic: Knowledge is held by some, while concerning parties have no idea.

    Example: Hamlet, we know he's only acting insane, and we know he plans on killing Claudius.

Situational Irony: The opposite from what is expected happens.

    Example: Tartuffe, after conning Orgon, brings an Officer to carry out an order of eviction, only to be arrested himself.

Verbal Irony: What is said is opposite from what is meant. Usually sarcasm, hyperbole, or litotes can be tied into verbal irony.

    Example:  "You've always been kind to me"(an employee to a mean boss)

Of course there are other ironies but they can be categorized within these three. Now, in the song I'll admit that not all of her examples are all that ironic, such as a traffic jam when you're already late, (the opposite in that situation would more likely be catching all of the green lights when it no longer matters if you're on time). A black fly in a white wine, is definitely opposite from what is expected. There is no limit on what can be ironic. It can be as minute as sleeping like a baby when your own infant is up all night and a terrible sleeper, or as grand as the sun causing blindness when it lets us see. Something happy happening causing something tragic is an example. Something bad happening on a day that's supposed to be happy. Doing something after avoiding it and then it causing your death is again an example. Everyone needs to understand there is no standard, so even if it's not a perfect example, it's still an example. IdentityM (talk) 05:23, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Which of these 3 does cosmic irony fit in as? Xargque (talk) 22:28, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Play-it-safe

If he was afriad to fly and dies in a plane crash I would suggest it would be truly ironic if his second name actually was 'Play-It-Safe'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calindreams (talk • contribs) 12:48, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm unable to make an edit, but it appears "On that country, "Ironic" was certified gold by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA)" should be "In that country" referring to the USA which was mentioned in the previous sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.213.249.79 (talk) 11:20, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Y Done Tbhotch* ^{۩ ۞} 19:05, 23 May 2011 (UTC)