Talk:Ismail I

Untitled

I have reverted 3 edits by 2 IPs, deleting sources and infos. Tājik (talk) 15:42, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I've restored the original quote by Minorsky. Tājik (talk) 00:31, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

I've once again reverted unexplained deletions by an anon IP. Tajik (talk) 17:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

According to the Gumilyov L. (Bosphere and Etnogenesis of the Earth, Moscow, 2001) Shah ismail has purely turkic origin and his native language was Azerbaijani turkish. Therefore, He wrote in Azerbaijani turkish. Dear TAJIK, You have written that According to Minorsky Shah Ismail was bilingual at birth. Firstly, It must be shame for all of us, to say about Shah Ismail bilingual. Secondly, the Idea of Minorsky cannot be used here as a criteria. Therefore, I delete "Minorsky". Shah Ismail HAS TURKISH DIVAN and everybody knows that it was his native language.

Iraq

In Life and Political History section it writes: Baghdad and the holy Shi'a shrines of Najaf and Karbala were seized from the Ottoman Turks, lost and reconquered again.

I think this sentence must be revised. Ismail died in 1524. Iraq had never been a part of Ottoman Empire before 1524. Iraq was annexed by Ottoman Empire in 1534 , ten years after Ismail's death. So there was no conquest and reconquest of Iraq from Ottoman Empire. In fact, Ismail conquered Iraq from Murat Bey of Akkoyunlu Turkmens in 1508 Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:23, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

On Language

The text in the article now states that he was bilingual 'at birth'. Did he start speaking two different languages the moment he came out of his mother? If so, she might have been somewhat distressed. I think what is meant is either "his household was bilingual" or "he grew up bilingual".

70.18.16.154 (talk) 07:18, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Khatā'ī means Sinner ?

I did my best but could not find the Doerfer's article about the meaning of Khatā'ī . I think it may also be related to Khitan people that in Persian language it is written as Khatā'ī . --Alborz Fallah (talk) 16:17, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

His pen-name Khatā'ī is Arabic (Arabic: خطائي‎ / Ḫaṭāʾī) and means "the one with errors". So the wider meaning of the name is indeed "sinner", but in a poetic way. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Khitan people or anything else.

POV pushing edits

I detected Ethnocentric attempt by User:Lysozym‎ and User:Xashaiar. Those edits: A, B etc. are POV pushing. It's very clear that their attempt is to remove the term of Shah of Azerbaijan. However this is historical fact. At first, Ismail became the "Shah of Azerbaijan". And then he became the shah of all of Iran. OK ?POV pushing edit. It's very clear your attempt is to remove the term of Shah of Azerbaijan. This is historical fact. First of all, he became the "Shah of Azerbaijan". And then he became the "Shah Iran". Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 10:52, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

And do you have any sources for the name "Abū l-Muzaffar bin Haydar as-Safavī" ? I couldn't find it in Reliable sources. Takabeg (talk) 11:01, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

• "...at Tabriz he was enthroned as Shah of Azerbaijan (1501)." Woodbridge Bingham, Hilary Conroy, Frank William Iklé, A History of Asia: Formations of civilizations, from antiquity to 1600, Allyn and Bacon, 1974, p. 116.
• "...became Shah of Azerbaijan in 1501 and Shah of Iran a year later." Curtis F Jones, Divide and Perish, AuthorHouse, 2011, p. 245.
• "...in July 1501 Isma'il was enthroned as shah of Azerbaijan." The New Encyclopaedia Britannica: Micropædia, Encyclopædia Britannica, 1991, p. 295.
  • Iran: the essential guide to a country on the brink, p. 56.
• "Becoming shah of Azerbaijan in 1501 after conquering Tabriz" The encyclopedia Americana, Volume 1, Grolier, 2000, p. 511.

Takabeg (talk) 11:17, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Ethnocentric? a) of the sources mentioned above, only can be considered relevant and reliable (Encyclopaedia Americana). There are much better sources available, such as Encyclopaedia Iranica, Cambrdige History of Iran, and so forth. Why do you not cite any of those? b) Modern national borders and self-understanding did not exist back then. Ismail did not identify himself as an "Azeri" or a "king of Azerbaijan". He identified himself as a "Safawi" and as a hereditary grandmaster of that movement. His first battles were meant to revenge his father. After defeating the Turkoman confederations, he realized the power vacuum and declared himself king of all of Iran. Read Minorsky or Savory. c) Even though this information is wrong (i.e. that he was "king of Azerbaijan"), it is still mentioned in the article. But it is irrelevant for the introduction. In a very short time, he established himself as the "King of Iran", and he was recognized as such by his Ottoman and Uzbek enemies. --Lysozym (talk) 18:52, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Expert attention

I was alerted that someone had changed all of the male pronouns to female. So I changed back, her to his, she to he, girl to boy, daughter to son. The problem is that in some passages it's not clear which is correct as a few of the people were female. Any knowledgeable person who can read through the sections and correctly align the pronouns with the individuals is welcome to make changes to the article.

Particularly confusing is this passage: "His father, Martha, was the son of Uzun Hasan by his Pontic Greek husband Theodora, better known as Despina Khatun.[6] Theodora was the son of Empress John IV of Trebizond. (He had married Uzun Hassan in a deal to protect Trebizond from the Ottomans.[7]) Ismail grew up bilingual, speaking Persian and Azeri.[8][9]" I have no idea whether husband, son, father are correct or were also incorrectly changed.

Thank you! Ocaasi ^{t | c} 22:32, 23 February 2012 (UTC)