Talk:Jakten på Odin

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2003-06-30

Wilmer Thomas

Was Odin a human?

• Is it possible that Odin was in fact a historical person, as stated by Snorri Sturluson in his Edda and Saxo Grammaticus in Gesta Danorum?

Basis for calculations from Anglo-Saxon genealogies

This also was the hypothesis for Thor Heyerdahl in his last project, Jakten på Odin (The search for Odin).
Following Heyerdahl's calculations of 30 year/generation, the man named 'Odin' would have lived sometimes during the later 2nd, early 3rd century AD. The two Anglo-Saxon genealogies of Cerdic and Ida gives us a birth date for Odin sometimes, roughly, 150 - 200 AD. Some ancient kings supposedly lived into their 80s, and got kids late that inherited the kingdom... so a longer stretch of years is possible (but hardly shorter - for a son to grow up and inherit a kingdom, he should be at least in his 20s when the father dies?). So, calculating 40 years/generation would set a birth date for Odin to be around 100 - 150 AD.

Collaboration with Ynglinga saga and Roman wars in Asia Minor

Now, how does this add up with the Asa-peoples emigration from the Black Sea to escape the Romans? The simple truth is, it does not...

Heyerdahl & Lillieström takes another route, and deducts that a tribe of the Odin-people very possibly might have emigrated from Azov-lake around 60 BC, to escape from the Roman empire forces. This is compared with the genealogy of Ynglinga saga, were Njord, contemporary with Odin, is the ancestor of Norwegian and Swedish kings, and thus gives a valid 31 - 33 year mean per generration to match the year 60 BC.

So, it seems we have two different approaches to identifying a human being named Odin, that span at least 200 years apart. It just do not match...

Conclusions and hypothesis

How can this be matched?
It seems plausible that the Asas really emigrated from Azov/Asgård around 60 BC, but it certainly does not match the Anglo-Saxon genealogy as we have seen.

Is it possible to find a solution that combiness the Odin that emigrated from the Black Sea with the man that got to be worshipped as a god by the northern peoples?

Please see my homepage for a deeper analysis - and share your thoughts!

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I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend (as I've done before to another user), but I frankly don't buy the whole 'Odin-people' bit from Azerbaijan. Here's what you need to do to (try to)convince me: bring linguistic evidence. After that, photos of the people definately couldn't hurt, though its completely understand if can't come forward with pictures. Its not that I doubt the plausability of it, as it is widely known that Swedes ventured far into modern day Russia through its vast river systems. Its that they would settle there (as opposed to trading) with enough population to maintain such an identity for 1k years and not be popularly known. D.E. Cottrell 05:05, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC) The Norwegians often travelled around Varanger and Murmansk and down the rivers in Russia(great svitjod) infact easier and safer that way, than thrue difficult woodland. By the way..The russian, alias rus, ros, ors, urs needed to establies Russia with a king to rule the country, who do you think they ask to come? The Varangian brothers.. one of them called Rurik. Because he had the right blood after ...Odin.

-)

Yes, it certainly seems the work of crackpots. Scandinavians went to this direction, not the other way around. Whether it was Goths or Rus, the story has it that they went in a southeasterly direction. There is no evidence of this connection except through fantasy. The Volkerwanderung is the greatest factor in my reasoning to this matter especially since the invading hordes which came from the East were not in any way enjoyable to the Germanic tribes which the Swedes had been a party to. Kenneth Alanson 09:11, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

interesting. Dont delete other thoughts. This discusion history is deleters histery.

Archaeology is based on FACTS. There are no FACTS to suggest that Heyerdahl/Lillieström are right. They have based their theories on negative evidence, which means that you might as well suggest that Odin was a spaceman from Uranus or the moon. There is no evidence to contradict this theory either, so it is as valid as the H/L theory. Grumpy444grumpy 15:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

This page contains the phrase "the pagan Norse gods". That seems non-NPOV to me, considering that "pagan" can be used offensively. Tristan Schmelcher 21:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

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DNA might give the answer to this riddle of the origin of Odin. Also the level of strontium in the bones of one of the women found in The Oseberg find in Norway. Many historians belive that the women buried with the Oseberg ship, must have been Queen Aasa of the Ynglinge clan, the royal clan in Scandinavia in the 700 th century. Recent measures of the strontium level (2007) in the womens bones, suggest that she lived in the area of Agder in Norway, and moved to Vestfold, as Snorre says (The Oseberg find is in Vestfold). The trees used in the Oseberg ship was cut in the year 834, around the time her son Halvdan Svarte took over the kingdom, and there is no doubt that the women got a "royal" burial.

Now, what is even more interesting is that recent DNA finds, suggest that the women had ancestral roots in the areas around the Black Sea. [1] The question is why a royal important women in Norway has roots from the Black Sea region? I know that some have suggested that it is not Queen Aasa in the Oseberg find, but the new findings in the strontium level and the DNA, must have consequence for our conclusions.

Snorre says that Odin came from the Black Sea area and that Queen Aasa is related to him. If it is Queen Aasa in the Oseberg find after all, and she has roots from the Black Sea area, then what?

Ingve Gilje, Norway 6.sep 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fjosman (talk • contribs) 19:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

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Odin may have been a god-like title assigned multiple times - there may have been more than one "Odin". One independent scholar, V. Rjabchikov, (spelling uncertain here) suggests that the title relates to the Sun-God, and means 'son of', using a proto-Slavonian dialect. (Sergei V. Rjabchikov). See article "Did Odin Exist?" http://public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl46.htm

Something else that may be of interest is the translation of runic stela inscriptions into the Gok-Turkic dialect by Turgay Kurum, a Turkish scholar. http://www.antalyaonline.net/futhark/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdarrellg (talk • contribs) 08:55, 29 November 2008 (UTC) ^91.186.72.49 (talk) 22:39, 1 September 2010 (UTC)Odin had many names....wotan, woden, Udin(russians use "u" as spoken "o"). Compare Snorre and cantebury cronicles against each other and you will see almost the same names before and after Odin, alias Woden. How could Snorre sitting in Iceland, writing the saga around 12 century pinpointing exactly where Asaheim, Asgard, Asergard where? Heyerdahl started digging in the town Asov and found proof of existent in the soil. He only followed Snorres saga who has been looked at as a Mythology in scandinavia since 18 century by christian church.

Did Heyerdahl completely disregard all linguistic theory?

Seeing that it is already noted in the opening paragraph of the 'Critique' section that Heyerdahl based his reasoning on similarities between Norse concepts and present day place names, are we sure that he disregarded all linguistic theory, completely?

It would be benificial if the person(s) who originally contributed this article would elaborate on this. Would Heyerdahl himself have agreed that he disregarded linguistic theory? Was/is there perhaps a debate around Heyerdahl's use of linguistic and other scientific disciplines? Can that debate be brought into the description?

If it is correct that the entire academic community in Norway are agreed that Heyerdahl didn't understand or didn't want to apply scientific methodology, does there exist some literature to highlight this issue and can this be summarized in the article? He was from time to time interviewed in the media and these appearances should at least provide some sourcing.

Without such sourcing and elaboration on how Heyerdahl applied linguistic theory, the article as it stands seems too subjective and point of view to conform to encyclopedic standards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Datsun69 (talk • contribs) 11:35, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I have now added sourcing for the critique of Heyerdahl's Odin project, mainly the review in Maal og minne, 1/2002. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Datsun69 (talk • contribs) 15:03, 4 March 2011 (UTC)