Talk:John Hancock Tower

Addresses and mysteries of the three (?) John Hancock buildings

Until I get this all straightened out, I've put a draft version in John Hancock Tower/temp.

Relying rather uncritically on a book,

Lyndon, Donlyn, (1982), The City Observed: Boston, A Guide to the Architecture of the Hub, Vintage Books.

I wrote that there were three John Hancock buildings in Boston. I still think that's probably right, but Keith Tyler called me on it and there is a bit of puzzle about the buildings' addresses and identities. Either Lyndon messed up, or the addresses have changed rather drastically. My supposition is:

• The 1922 building WAS at 200 Clarendon and is now called the Steven Brown building and IS at 197 Clarendon
• The 1947 building with the weather-forecasting beacon WAS at 175 Berkeley and IS NOW at 200 Berkeley
• The 1975 big glass tower WAS at Hancock Place and IS NOW at 200 Clarendon

Does this seem possible?

The following is a direct quote from Lyndon, P. 193, IV A 7

John Hancock Mutual Life Insurance Company Buildings

200 Clarendon Street

between St. James Avenue and Stuart Street

Parker, Thomas & Rice, 1922

175 Berkeley Street

between St. James avenue and Stuart Street

Cram & Ferguson, 1947

Hancock Place

between St. James avenue and Stuart Street, west of Clarendon Street

I. M. Pei & Partners, 1975

Notice that the address given for the big glass tower, "Hancock Place," matches that in the old article above. But, as of 2004, the address of the big glass tower is always given as 200 Clarendon Street."

Lyndon says specifically "If you stand on the corner of Clarendon Street and St. James Avenue and look directly into the mirrored surface of the third Hancock, you will see reflected there the first two, aligned hierarchically in an ethereal family portrait." So when he wrote it, all three of them existed at the same time.

Lyndon's map, opposite p. 189, is perfectly clear. There are three locations labelled with a 7 in a circle. Once is in the block bounded by St. James, Trinity Pl, Stuart, and Clarendon. One is at the Clarendon Street end of the block bounded by St. James, Berkeley, Stuart, and Clarendon. One is at the Berkeley Street end of that same block. The text describes the "first building" as being "on Clarendon street" and refers to viewing it from the observation floor of the "third John Hancock" and saying "the earlier tower remains walled up inside the additions" suggesting an almost-vertical view. From his map it looks as if the first and third building would almost face each other across Clarendon Street, and from his description it sounds as if you could look almost vertically down at the first building from the observation floor of the third.

Now, a Boston Globe article says (archives free online to print subscribers, in case you're wondering whether my house is stacked full of old newspapers)

HANCOCK SEEKS BUYER FOR TOWER COMPLEX

Author: By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff Date: 11/27/2002 Page: E3 Section: Business

It's official: The John Hancock Tower is for sale.

The 60-story tower in Boston's Back Bay, perhaps the city's most distinctive office building, is being put on the market along with two nearby company-owned buildings. Hancock officials would not say how much they will be asking for the properties, which include 197 Clarendon St. and 200 Berkeley St. as well as the mirrored glass tower. Nor would they say how much they expect to get.

This would all make perfect sense IF

• 197 Clarendon = the first, 1922 building;
• 200 Berkeley = the "old" tower with the colored beacon
• 200 Clarendon = the new big glass tower A.K.A. the Plywood Palace...

Googling on 197 Clarendon reveals that as of 2004 there is a building at that address, it is known as the "Steven Brown building," and it contains many John Hancock offices.

Any help on this would be welcome. My current residence and commute do not take me into Boston regularly, so I can't ascertain "ground truth" in the obvious way. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 22:58, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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John Hancock public relations confirms that there is a building at 197 Clarendon that was owned by John Hancock. She thought 1922 "sounded right" for the age. My contact (whose name I cleverly forgot to get) says that it is currently known as the "Steven Brown building," after the (former?) chairman of John Hancock; the name change was recent, "within the last couple of years" but she doesn't know exactly when; and that it was previously known as "The Clarendon Building." This sounds like Lyndon's "first building." I'd bet a nickel that it was known as "The Clarendon Building" following construction of the 1947 Berkeley Street building. She says that "Hancock Place" is not an actual street address but was used as a mailing address for the big tower. Will say more when and if I find out more. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 16:07, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, you're gonna love this. The Structurae picture of what is supposed to be Cram and Ferguson's 1947 building at 175 Berkeley, at [1], is actually a picture of 500 Boylston Street, which as far as I know has no relation to John Hancock (it's main tenant if not owner was Houghton Mifflin). Also Structurae claims that 175 Berkely is a 26 story building; BRA's Boston Atlas reports that 175 Berkeley is only 11 stories (and 500 Boylston is 18). So even architecture sites (like this one, which has otherwise served me very well for Brutalism) appear to be unreliable. However, they link to Emporis, which has both the address (200 Berkeley) and picture correct ([2]). For some reason, though, the BRA Boston Atlas identifies the building as "90 St. James".

26 stories sounds to me like the correct height of the "old John Hancock," i.e. 200 Berkeley. Oddly enough the Lyndon book and the first umpteen places I Googled don't happen to give the number of stories...

Sigh, I wish I were on the ground out there still. But to be fair, I never heard anyone ever mention a third "Hancock building" -- "the old John Hancock building" always refers to the one with the weather signal at the top.

Check out this: [3] -- it refers to a joint contract for janitorial services for all three of the buildings you list above in your "This would make sense if" paragraph. I think you were right on there. As for Lyndon, well, he at least seems to have gotten the map right. I didn't realize Boston's downtown architectural history was so complicated. And I used to work immediately near or regularly visit quite a lot of these buildings. - KeithTyler 18:53, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

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Hey, people with Massachusetts library cards can get access to some databases at home, courtesy of the local library network and/or the BPL! Kewl! Now I can search the Herald, too:

Boston Herald (MA)

August 28, 1992

Smoke gives Hancock employees eerie deja vu

Edition: 01

Section: NEWS

Page: 014

Article Text:

Employees at the John Hancock building got an unwelcome feeling of deja vu yesterday when they saw clouds of thick black smoke billowing across their office windows. There was no fire at the building, located at 197 Clarendon St., and no injuries resulted from the malfunction of a basement generator. The problem was corrected in 10 minutes.

A four-alarm fire forced the evacuation of 3,000 people from the 62-story John Hancock Tower across the street Aug. 11.

Fire and Hancock officials said the smoke from yesterday's 12:20 p.m. incident escaped through a seventh-floor diesel exhaust and never entered the building.

A Hancock spokesman said there had been no previous problems with the building's three diesel generators...

So, here's a citation of a building at 197 Clarendon Street that's across from the Tower, and the report calls it "the John Hancock building." Although probably only in a generic sense.

Also: Boston Herald, October 28, 2002 "Overall, Hancock has roughly 2.8 million square feet of space on the market, including its signature 60-story Clarendon Street tower and its old 30-story tower at 200 Berkeley St., as well as a 12-story building at 197 Clarendon." November 27, 2002: "A collection of Boston landmarks officially went on the auction block yesteday. Hub corporate giant John Hancock Financial Services Inc. said it is selling its towering glass-skinned Copley Square headquarters as well as its former home, the hulking Berkeley Building, which sports a weather-signaling spire seen for miles, and a third building. In all, the 3 million square feet of Back Bay office space Hancock put up for sale could fetch close to $1 billion, observers said yesterday....Hancock also said it would sell a third big Back Bay office building, at 197 Clarendon St., for a package that could bring $900 million, observers say."

So, I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that from 1975 to 2002, the John Hancock Financial Mumble Whatever Corporation owned three big buildings, that the correct addresses are 197 Clarendon, 200 Berkeley, and 200 Clarendon, and that they were probably built on the dates and architects mentioned by Lyndon. What I'm not at all clear on is what names which buildings had at what times.

(By the way, for the record, I'm not an architectural maven. Ignoramus would be closer to the mark. I simply hated Boston City Hall when it was built. I had arguments with people when I insisted that, at the time, all the newspapers and architects were simply gushing over this obvious monstrosity. No ordinary layperson believes that anybody in their right mind could have thought that was a good idea. Amazingly enough there was a column in the Globe just the other day explaining that not only did architects love it then, they still love it now. Keith, nice article on Brutalism. If you're one of the people who thinks raw concrete and huge plazas made of solid brick are great, we will just have to agree to disagree. I assume you've actually tried to walk across that awful flat expanse on a cold winter day with the wind blowing, and a surface that has been very imperfectly cleared of snow and ice.....) [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 23:41, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I can't declare myself an architectural expert either, but I do admire the stuff. I can get lost staring into a floor plan. I've learned a fair amount about the Modernist style and its offspring though through research on this art and on Brutalism. And no, despite having walked up the stairs on the south side of the building probably a hundred times, I've never walked into the building or into the inner court, since I've never had business in city hall. But I loved looking up at the building, shouting its intention and purpose with its very shape over the uniquely empty plaza. Which reminds me, I need to put Boston City Hall on my todo list. - KeithTyler 17:17, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

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The properties include the John Hancock Tower, an iconic glass structure at 200 Clarendon St., as well as the Stephen L. Brown Building at 197 Clarendon St. and the Berkeley Building at 200 Berkeley St. Together, the buildings known as the Tower Complex comprise 2.9 million square feet of office space. IREI News Archives... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 23:50, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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Aha! The references to the "Steven Brown" buildings are misspelled. It is the Stephen L. Brown building.

John Hancock Chairman Stephen L. Brown to Retire in May. PR Newswire, Feb 5, 2001 John Hancock Financial Services, Inc. today announced that its chairman, Stephen L. Brown, will retire May 14.... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 23:50, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Copley Plaza Hotel

For now I'm removing the part about Hancock being "forced to purchase the Copley Hotel" (actually the Copley Plaza Hotel, not to be confused with the other 5,000 hotels named Copley in the area) because I can't confirm it. Currently it's owned by Fairmont Hotels and Resorts [4] and Alwaleed bin Talal, who first invested in the property in the 1996. [5] Alwaleed/Fairmont (Alwaleed owns half of Fairmont as well) in turn bought it from Copley Plaza Hotel Limited Partnership, which apparently was a part of Harvard's endowment. Now where Harvard picked up the property, I don't know, but it's pretty clear that if Hancock did ever hold the property, it wasn't because it had become a white elephant.

I have found two stories about this: The hotel may have been damaged when the tower foundation pit bowed in; and/or sunlight reflected from the completed tower may have overwhelmed the hotel's air conditioning and Hancock supposedly bought the property as part of the settlement. Unfortunately, the sources I've found so far are themselves uncertain about whether any of these things actually happened.

On a more cheerful note, this exercise has unearthed enough to do something soon about our sad Copley Plaza Hotel stub.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by IMeowbot (talk • contribs) 04:06, 10 April 2005 (UTC)

BWSC aerials

Does anyone know the reuse rights of the BWSC's aerial photos (that you can get on the BRA Boston Atlas)? I've tried emailing and calling them and no one will respond to me. Anyone care to visit them and ask for Joe McGekrin (sp?) for me? :) The Manulife aerial photo has been put on WP:PUI. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ [AMA]

A few more things about the hancock buildings: 197 Clarendon was originally just 3 or 4 stories, it was renovated and the additional stories were installed. The lobbies and basements of 197 Clarendon and 200 Berkeley are attatched. There is a tunnel that attatches 200 Clarendon to 197 Clarendon John Hancock Life used to own several more buildings in the area. The windows in the Tower still break(thankfully they don't fall out). There is a sensor on EVERY window in the tower(all 10,000+) so they can tell when a window breaks. Some people say the Hancock is 62 stories. The 61st and 62nd floors are all mechanical floors. The 7th floor is all mechanical space and there is no 8th floor, although the 7th floor has enough height to include and 8th floor. The 2nd floor (or mezzanine)includes: elevators(double decker), a small amount of office space, and mechanical space. So if you ask me the Hancock Tower is 61 stories, minus the 8th floor.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.74.46 (talk) 07:38, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Credit cards

Recently inserted. I'm moving it here. No source is cited even for the bare fact of credit cards not being accepted, let alone any indication that anyone but one Wikipedia editor regards this as the building's predominant fault, or even a matter of any importance.

Material removed follows: Dpbsmith (talk) 21:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

No Credit Cards Allowed

By far its most predominant fault, this ultra modern $175 million building does not accept credit cards in it's cafe.

- First off "its", and the Blue Glass Cafe, located on the first floor, does accept credit cards. The old cafeteria in the basement did not accept credit cards. However, the basement cafeteria has been closed for months. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.198.98.16 (talk) 16:05, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Signage at 601 Congress?

I keep meaning to get over there and look, but haven't had a chance. Images from Google Image Search fail to show any conspicuous John Hancock signage. As our article notes, on April 28, 2004, the then-head of Manulife's Boston operations announced that the building would be renamed the "John Hancock Building." When I queried Manulife I was told verbally that the building would bear conspicuous "John Hancock" exterior and interior signage featuring the John Hancock logo. I suspect that has not come to pass. Does anyone know? Dpbsmith (talk) 15:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Original research

A reference cites a telephone conversation (I guess by an editor) with someone from LeMessurier Consultants: "Location and size of mass dampers: telephone conversation with Richard Henige". Material was deleted as it was original research and not appropriate according to Wikipedia guidelines. Articles are supposed to rely on valid third-party published sources.--Parkwells (talk) 01:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)