Talk:Josip Broz Tito

His accent

I have been informed by an ex-Yugoslav that Tito spoke Serbo-Croatian with a Russian accent.
Is that true? Is that a legacy of his service in the Red Army as a young man?
Varlaam (talk) 00:57, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi, as much as I dislike the dictator Tito, he was indeed very fluent in foreign languages, mostly because he lived abroad, in Austria and Russia. Furthermore, he was born in a village in the northern Croatia, whose dialect has many Germanisms and differs greatly from official Croatian language (I can hardly understand it sometimes, even harder than Slovenian), even more from the Serbian. As a result of the time he spent abroad, he pronounced letter "l" (pronounced like it is in, for example English) like Croatian "lj" (it's pronounced like "l" in "Lermontov" or "Lenin"), what is pretty common for the speakers of Russian or German language.HeadlessMaster (talk) 13:40, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

There are also some conspiracy theorists claiming that the "real" Tito was actually killed in the Spanish Civil War where he was allegedly working for NKVD and was then replaced by a double of either Russian or German origin who later went on to rule Yugoslavia. They say his somewhat peculiar accent works as proof of this. I personally don't subscribe to these wild ideas but it is true that when you listen to his speeches his way of speaking sounds a bit unnatural, as if Serbo-Croatian was his second language. Timbouctou (talk) 15:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

There were also theories (early on) that he was, in fact - a woman, though those were dispelled rather quickly xD. But seriously, no, he spoke perfectly normal Serbo-Croatian [1]. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 18:30, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Seriously, if you had never heard Tito before, would you be able to tell just by listening to him where he's from? Because I don't think I could. He uses more ekavian vocabulary than usual for Croatians but he doesn't sound Serbian, and he puts stress on some words differently, akin to what you might expect from a Macedonian or an Albanian speaking Serbo-Croatian (for example in the speech you linked he unusually stresses the second syllables in "pomalo" and "budući" (instead of first) and the first syllable in "nepravilnosti" (instead of the third). I'm no expert on forensic linguistics but I always thought this might be because his first language might have been Slovenian. The pattern of his speech with short bursts of multisyllabic words with longish pauses in between certainly resembles Russian and his "l" almost always sounded like "lj". There could have been a number of reasons for this, but the fact is I never heard anyone pronounce words in the same manner. For comparison, Franjo Tuđman came from the same region of Croatia, spent his entire career in the JNA and used lots of ekavian vocabulary, but his pronunciation was entirely different. Timbouctou (talk) 19:22, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I know many gypsies which spoke Albanian and they indeed tend to pronounce "l" like "lj", but also one of my friends (I think he's Serbian, but grew up in Germany) says "lj" instead of "l" and my Russian friend's father also pronounces it this way. Also, there are great differences between regional dialects. For example, I am familiar with ekavian chakavian (Kvarner region), but people in Čabar, which is pretty close, speak a dialect which is much harder to understand than Russian, at least for me. To stick with Tito, in this video, probably the same you had for an example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGTMl5losXY) I can hear some clear kajkavian accent, but also some weird accentes, like "socjalistički" with a short "i". Also, "our" other dictator, Ante Pavelić, also seems to have weird accent, but he reigned in the time before mass media, and it's not as discussed, so I would like to hear you opinions about him, but maybe we should discuss it on his page. However, as he is from Herzegovina with parents from Krivi Put (near Senj), his accent is nowhere close to Herzegovian or Senj-ian accent. HeadlessMaster (talk) 21:23, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

He spoke ekavian because he lived in Belgrade for a long time I imagine, Serbian pronunciation is very "contagious" for Croats, because its simpler I suppose. I actually know (of) several people who went to Belgrade just for a few months and started talking almost like Serbs without even realizing it. The same thing almost happened to me one time, its uncanny :). Though I think our pronunciation is softer and more appealing to the ear, even if a bit more "complex".

As for his "lj"s, well, it could be Russian.. or it could be something else, the guy was all over the place. But you can certainly hear the Zagorje in there. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 06:34, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

The theory Timbouctou mentioned about post-Spanish War Tito being a Russian double has been widely commented, and it started because Tito accent in his speaches when he became Yugoslav President was indeed as Russian as of Viktor Gorlichenko, a local home-made Vodka producer and drinker from the deep Russian village of Zalegoshch... However, his accent was the exact oposite of Serbo-Croatian spoken by Serbs or other nationalities in Serbia, and while ethnic Albanians and gypesies when speaking Serbian tend to speak softer, it is not the accent Tito had back then... I am not saying that it is trouth, or not (about him being a Russian double), just saying that it is not an obscure theory, but a widely commented one... I´ll see if I can find some source where this is mentioned, although I have not much time these days. FkpCascais (talk) 15:15, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

A comment on "serbian" and "croatian" languages. The people of the region Tito was born in, Hrvatsko Zagorje, speak ekavian language. It is better known as "kajkavski", but it is ekavian too. In fact majority of Hrvats actually speak kajkavian, which is the best proof that ijekavian and shtokavian version of serbo-croatian, or croato-serbian, is NOT the true Hrvatski language as it is being portrayed by the Hrvatski nationalists since the destruction of Jugoslavia and separation between the republics. Having a Slovenian mother - Slovenes speak kajkavian which is just slightly different to Zagorje kajkavian Tito would hear from his father - his pronunciation would have been acquired and modeled by her speech. His "accent" and "differences" are perfectly normal for a kajkavian speaker of the era because the second language he would learn was German. For Tito, just as for most of Hrvati, shtokavian and ijekavian was a southern language that he would only meet and learn later on as he started working around. And his natural speech would have been formed by then. Shtokavian and ijekavian was not spoken by Hrvati in the then Hrvatska, althoug it has been in use. The paradox comes from the Ilirian Movement which introduced it as an unifying language of all Slavic people in the region. The only Hrvati who spoke it as their first language lived in Bosnia and Serbia, where it was also the language of at least 50% (90% in Bosnia) of population back in the 19 and the first half of 20th century.

While this is hotly contested by may contemporary wannabe linguists, the fact that orthodox priests in Serbia still perform their liturgies and sermons in shtokavian and ijekavian, which they call "antic" or "true" Serbian, proves this to be the case. Reformer of Serbian language, Vuk Karadzic also considered shtokavian and ijekavian as the true and authentic Serbian. My own grandmother was from Hrvasko Zagorje and she was talking in exactly the same way with exactly the same accent as Tito did. There is no mystery or doubt about his "accent" to anyone who had an opportunity to hear people from that area born in the same period. Even today it is possible to meet elderly people speaking in much the same way Tito did, in Hrvatsko Zagorje. With the hysteric redesign and introduction of "real" Hrvatski language by the nationalists, the people are changing the way they speak for fear of being killed by the new powers to be. The net result is that the old, original kajkavian accent is disappearing fast and is practically unknown outside the ever-shrinking area from where it came. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.20.181.13 (talk) 23:26, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I would advise you, sir, to please keep your Karadzic-derived ideas to yourself if you have no constructive suggestions on improving the article. Wikipedia is not a forum. I am a Dalmatian, and I dare say you have a lot to learn on various forms of Serbo-Croatian. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 23:57, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

IP edits

IP 92.37.53.74, you're behaving in a very disruptive manner. It is not disputed that this court ruling in Slovenia warrants inclusion in the article, but it does not warrant inclusion in the lede, or its own article section. Please take into consideration that, while from your perspective in Slovenia this may seem otherwise, I dare say the vast majority of people, even in former Yugoslavia, never heard of this court ruling. It is also not necessary that you include your own commentaries on the decision, especially while omitting the fact that the ruling makes a point of making clear its decision does not concern Tito himself or his conduct [2]

"The ruling also says that the purpose of the review was not a verdict on Tito as a figure or on his concrete actions, as well as not a historical weighing of facts and circumstances, but the evaluation of the symbolic weight of his name from the perspective of constitutional principles."

--DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 09:12, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Considering the coverage the case and the ruling have received it is pretty unlikely that "vast majority of people" haven't heard about it. Many in Croatia certainly heard of this, evidenced by the vast amount of articles published in the Croatian media about it, which then spurred renewed debates over the Marshal Tito Square renaming issue.

• Slovenski ustavni sud protiv Titove ulice u Ljubljani (Dnevni Avaz, Bosnia and Herzegovina)
• Slovenija: Ustavni sud odlučio zabraniti da ulica nosi ime Tita (Večernji list, Croatia)
• Slovenski ustavni sud protiv Titove ulice (Nacional, Croatia)
• Slovenski ustavni sud ukinuo Titovu cestu (Novi list, Croatia)
• Tito je u Sloveniji - protutustavan (Glas Istre, Croatia)
• Slovenija: Ustavni sud odlučio zabraniti da ulica nosi ime Tita (24sata, Croatia)
• Tito ustavno nepoželjan u Sloveniji (Radio Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina)
• Slovenija ne želi Tita (Nova TV, Croatia)
• SLO: Neustavno ime ulice po Titu (B92, Serbia)
• UVREDA ZA ŽRTVE Slovenci zabranili naziv ulice po Titu (Slobodna Dalmacija, Croatia)
• Slovenski ustavni sud zabranio Titovu ulicu (TPortal, Croatia)
• USTAVNI SUD SLOVENIJE ZABRANIO NAZIVE ULICE PO TITU (Kurir, Serbia)
• U Sloveniji neustavno nazivanje ulica po Titu (Vijesti, Montenegro)
• Ustavni sud u Ljubljani zabranio da se ulica zove po Titu (Index.hr, Croatia)
• Ljubljana bez Titove ulice (Radio Television of Serbia)
• Ljubljana zabranila ulicu nazvanu po Titu (RTL Televizija, Croatia)
• Љубљана: Неуставно именовање улице по Титу (Politika, Serbia)

In addition, the original April 2009 Ljubljana city council decision had already raised brows in the region before the court later overturned it:

• Tito ponovo dobija ulicu u Ljubljani (Blic, Serbia)
• Tito ponovo dobio ulicu u Ljubljani (Oslobođenje, Bosnia and Herzegovina)
• Tito dobio ulicu u Ljubljani (RTL Televizija, Croatia)
• Tito ponovno dobiva svoju ulicu u središtu Ljubljane (24sata, Croatia)
• Tito u Ljubljani ponovo dobiva ulicu (Business.hr, Croatia)
• Љубљана доби улица „Тито“ (Nova Makedonija, Macedonia)
• У Љубљани и званично „Титова” улица (Politika, Serbia)

Also, thanks for copying exactly what I had said 13 days ago at Talk:Tito street decision in Slovenia. NB, the editor who created that page had already inserted a sentence about the issue in this article on Oct 8, which you reverted opining that the sentence "needs a better source" (it came with two refs, one pointing to the text of the ruling, another to Slovenian Press Agency's article carried by Slovenia Times). How ironic it is that you are here quoting that very same article 13 days later.

On topic - I agree that it merits inclusion here, but since you've spent a good part of your career preventing anything which might shed a negative light on Tito from being added here (or anywhere else for that matter on Wikipedia), there is no article on Wikipedia which could provide a context for understanding the decision. Or do you think what the Slovenian court had in mind when they mentioned "grave violations of human rights and basic freedoms" was the confiscation of property of ethnic Germans? Now that is something nobody in ex Yugoslavia heard or cares about. Timbouctou (talk) 10:01, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Do you have a point, or do you just want to have another argument with me? You know what, I've had it, this is no way to discuss, I'm bringing your behavior up on ANI again. It is absolutely impossible to achieve an amicable agreement with you. Though one cannot really blame you for carrying on like this, since every time you manage to have your way by edit-warring and force. The laughable irony is you think I'm the "bully".. or is that the point? Do you feel good when you think you're "bullying the bully"? As for the news links please read WP:NEVENT and WP:NOTNEWSPAPER, did you actually post all that just to prove me wrong on an insignificant side-point? --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 13:56, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

So you still think the "vast majority of people never heard of this" in spite of the copious amount of coverage this ruling received in dozens of media outlets in ex-Yugoslav countries? You still think that STA's English-language article is "not good enough" as a source, or did it magically become one once you realised that the Slovenian guy had built an entire article around it (Tito street decision in Slovenia), which he did only after you removed the information on sight here because you just happen to dislike its content? So you might want to squeeze in some explanations in between insults in your next belligerent rant. Oh and btw WP:NOTNEWSPAPER does not apply here - unless you think this is "routine coverage" (which it isn't - see WP:ROUTINE - and even in case it was - it would establish the verdict as even more notable). As for WP:NEVENT, this satisfies WP:EFFECT (the verdict was cited in renewed efforts to rename Marshal Tito Square in Zagreb, Croatia, and was mentioned as a precedent by 550 Croatian notables people who signed the petition only a few days ago); WP:GEOSCOPE (the verdict was reported across the entire region); WP:DIVERSE (there's a huge range of sources up there, from Internet-only portals to national broadcasting corporations). You're going to have to look for some other guideline to misinterpret I'm afraid. As for you deleting referenced information opining that the refs are somehow dubious before you actually read them - this is not your first time you did that, is it? You were caught doing exactly that in June 2011 in the Bleiburg massacre article, (although you later had to apologize for it in the article talk page). Perhaps another apology is in order?

"Do you have a point, or do you just want to have another argument with me?"

I made my point in the last paragraph of my original post, the one which started with the words "On topic...". Basically - what sense does it make to say that the Slovenian supreme court ruled that Tito symbolizes "grave violations of human rights and basic freedoms" in an article which offers nothing to explain why. Just like the lead which currently merely says that "He remains a controversial figure in the Balkans." (why?) and like the criticism section which says that "Despite accusations of culpability in the Bleiburg massacre, Josip Broz Tito repeatedly issued calls for surrender to the retreating column...", without saying what Bleiburg was - or that many of those who did surrender were executed nonetheless (ironically again, it says so in Dizdar's research paper which is quoted here; there's much that can be said about the sloppy referencing put together there, but I'll leave that for later). So in a nutshell - you are right, the verdict should go in the criticism section, but if - and only if - the section is expanded to explain the verdict's background. Timbouctou (talk) 18:10, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Look, I told you, I no longer read your posts of the above sort. For the sake of all that is sane, what do you want to do with the paragraph on the Slovene court case? Heh. I mean, any Wikipedian worth his salt can see the thing belongs in the Criticism section, which covers exactly those kind of subjects. But who are we kidding? You could not possibly advocate any position that is not in diametrical opposition to mine :). Though it would be nice if you would finally confirm that. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 19:24, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

So what would you say is the reason for the Slovenia court decision or do you think the readers do not need to know its background? Slovenians inexplicably think that the man's name alone is a symbol of grave violations of human rights? Timbouctou (talk) 19:37, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Heh. This isn't a poll we're talking about, you should not speak for the majority of the Slovene nation, Tim, let alone its entirety. As far as we can tell the majority of Croats apparently think he's the "Greatest Croat" that ever lived, how would you account for that? Who cares anyway, I'm not in public opinion research.

But let me once again make an effort to try to steer this conversation away from conflict-seeking. Do we agree, or do we not agree, that the Slovene court case belongs in the "Criticism" section. With all the other - criticism. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 20:10, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, on your first point - the Slovenian supreme court's ruling means that in their opinion (which is I guess correct as they know what they are talking about) the number of people who think he symbolizes grave violations of human rights is big enough not to be ignored when naming streets. If this was a fringe view they would have dismissed the case immediately. Apparently it is not. Regarding the second section - yes, it belongs to the criticism section, but it sure does not belong there on its own, especially not with what's there already. Claiming that Tito had nothing to do with Bleiburg massacre or Goli otok are fringe views at best (actually Ivo Goldstein called them "ridiculous" and Bleiburg was described as "possibly the worst atrocity Tito committed" by Sabrina P. Ramet). This needs to be changed in order for the mention of the verdict to make any sense. Timbouctou (talk) 20:22, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

You are being deliberately evasive, as per usual, and are talking about something else entirely, looking for an issue you might have a WP:BATTLE about. After all this, do you actually agree with me and my post all the way above? If you don't start actually discussing the subject of this thread in your fifth post, I'm done being insulted for today. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 20:29, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Thing is, the issues why JBT was deemed "a symbol of grave violation of human rights" by a sovereign country's constitutional court have been discussed at length many many many times earlier on this talk page and you have took it upon yourself to misinterpret policies time and again to have your way (which boils down to "JBT was a great guy, whoever thinks otherwise is a crazy nationalist") and effectively block improvements to the article which would mention these events in more detail. The issue of such topic simply missing from the article have been raised more times than I could count over the years. So yeah, of course you want to merge Tito street decision here once your random deletion of referenced information did not solve the problem. Of course you want to bury it in the criticism section and then debate for months how pretty much every book ever published on the subject is wrong, meaning the Slovenia's court ruling was wrong. Sorry but I can't buy that. Yes - this belong to "criticism" and yes - reasons for the ruling need to be expanded further. As in "as soon as possible". Timbouctou (talk) 20:45, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The reason for the Slovene verdict was explained in the verdict, and should of course be elaborated upon briefly in the paragraph on the verdict, along with the court's statement distancing itself from any historical issues. I.e. we do not need your own perceived reasons for the verdict, the court was kind enough to provide them.

For the record, it can be seen above ("yes - this belong to 'Criticism'") that User:Timbouctou does in fact agree with me on all relevant content issues that are the subject of this thread. The user has written several posts apparently for the sole purpose of starting a WP:BATTLE and being insulting. This seemed apparent from the start. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 20:56, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

So what does the "grave violations of human rights and basic freedoms in the decade following WWII" part refer to? Can you point it out in this article? (Hint: It's not the Germans.) Btw you can take your musings of what "seemed apparent from the start" elsewhere. Oh right, you already did. Timbouctou (talk) 21:05, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The decade following WWII apparently refers to the 1945-53 Stalinist period, while the state can be described as "totalitarian" in nature, and could just as easily refer to the period as a whole. I assume (though I would not presume to guess), since they're talking about the post-WWII decade, that the justices refer to the persecution of Stalinists and their internment on Goli Otok.. But, again, I would not presume to guess or use other wording than the court. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 21:50, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, could be. But Goli otok is never mentioned in the article at all and neither is what you called the "overtly totalitarian state" led by Tito in the 1945-1955 period when alleged Stalinists were persecuted en masse. That's a problem. Timbouctou (talk) 22:06, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I rephrased the above a bit, to better reflect my meaning. The current consensus term, based on numerous sources, is "authoritarian", and I think its an accurate term on the whole. You're not the first or the only person trying to cover this very controversial stuff, Tim. As always, as far as I am concerned, any such edit can stay as long as its from a 1) reliable (i.e. preferably non-local), 2) published, and 3) scholarly source, that 4) actually connects to Tito specifically and not the whole of Yugoslavia. I use those criteria since thats the only way such additions will stay anyway. As I said, this is probably THE most controversial person of our country and region, and trying to do this matter justice would be neither easy nor quick. I'm not doing it right now since, well.. take a look at the Draza Mihailovic collaboration mess, its been over two years now. And frankly I'm hoping another business of that sort won't start here as well. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 23:39, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry but your #1 (non-local) is the definition of WP:BIAS (speaking of locals - Dizdar is quoted in the article - I've actually downloaded his paper and what he says doesn't resemble what his research is being used to support here), and your #4 is very debatable since everyone (and by "everyone" I mean scholars both in the region and abroad, the general public, history textbooks, popular media and the like) consider Tito to be synonymous with Yugoslavia, the country where he was the ultimate authority on all matters, including being the country's prime minister, president, defence minister and/or commander-in-chief. When they talk about Yugoslavia's accomplishments they call them "Tito's accomplishments" and when they talk about atrocities they talk about "Tito's atrocities". Insisting that reliable authors must provide proof of his direct involvement in something is in direct opposition with WP:OR. Tito is synonymous with the regime he led for better or worse just like Hitler is synonymous with Nazi Germany or Ante Pavelić with NDH or Nicolae Ceausescu with communist Romania. That's what Slovenian Constitutional Court's ruling said, that's what historians say and that's what the public thinks. The only difference is that his fans focus only on regime's good things and his critics on its bad things. But nobody opposes the idea that it was all him. But the issue remains that this article does not touch on any negative thing at all. So how is a reader going to make sense of the court ruling? Timbouctou (talk) 00:08, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

The "criteria" above, just like WP:V in general, refers to challenged or controversial info (I thought that was obvious). I'm not about to pester people with all of that if noone objects to the text, such as e.g. what his lover's nickname was etc. But if you would care to challenge Dizdar's claim or him as a source, in my view you may have a legitimate case.

Well I certainly wouldn't agree that there is "nothing negative in the article", I dare say you're berating the painstaking search efforts of a lot of people with such an assessment :). Thus far all well-sourced "negative" information that refers to Tito directly has been included. Believe it or not, but Tito's role in the "negative" aspects of SFR Yugoslavia is touched on vary sparingly (or not at all) in scholarly publications. If the matter were clear this would hardly be a controversial issue in the first place. Again, look at Draza Mihailovic. The Chetnik movement's collaboration was industrial-scale, yet it is not permissible to call the man a collaborator simply because he headed the movement (as much as one might like to do so :)). As for Tito being "synonymous" with Yugoslavia, well, that may be your view, but I think you know that's not the sort of notion that should be seriously entertained when going through sources. Historians do not say that, you cannot speak for the public (again), and the Slovenes certainly make no such claim. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 00:42, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

First of all, Timbouctou has a very good point regarding the whitewashing of Tito´s negative aspects on this article and the unbalance found here. Also, I see you direktor persuing an anti-Mihailovic agenda in industrial-scale even in unrelated discussions, should I say hard feelings for not having demonstrated that on the mediation purpously open to deal with that? You should behave more correctly when discussing sensitive issues. Is it worth asking please? FkpCascais (talk) 01:09, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I apologize for impugning the honour of the Chetniks, FkpCascais. :) --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 09:15, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

No, you should apologise for making phalse and provocative claims and persuing an agenda. That is disruption, considering the intentional bad-faith over that, and the frequent times you did it. The claims you do on that subject are exactly the ones you failed to prove at the mediation (and you had over a year to do it), so you keep on proliferically pushing the phalse idea at semi-related discussions. Be carefull with that, please. FkpCascais (talk) 16:41, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I shall continue to comment on the Chetniks as I please, FkpCascais. As always, if you think my post was somehow "disruptive", you may feel free to post it on ANI and report me. As you've been told by many users, many times, it has been established beyond any doubt that the Chetnik movement collaborated with the enemy during WWII. AS i have often pointed out, it seems necessary to post the same sources over and over and over again when discussing with you. If you find yourself unable to accept that fact, and still find its mention offensive, you must understand I shall not be forced to censor my posts in accordance with your feelings. Certainly not with insults and empty threats of the above sort. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 17:29, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

You posted your sources over and over again and you did not get the consensus of any "industrial-scale collaboration", so the only one being abusive and insultin here is you, as you are making phalse hard-core serious accusations of Nazi-collaboration. I will obviously report you if you continue so, because WP is not a place for editors persuing their own missconceptions and propaganda, specially not if offensive and in inadequate places. FkpCascais (talk) 17:43, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

This is off-topic and I have nothing more to add. Sources have been posted, and you've been told over and over again by a lot of people, that the extent of the collaboration of the Chetnik movement as a whole has been conclusively established, and that it is not a topic of any dispute. (its spelled "false") --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 18:12, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Who said that to me? Be precise. FkpCascais (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Serbia - Kosovo

I don't want to start a nationalist row here, but isn't Kosovo recognised as an independent nation these days? 81.68.255.36 (talk) 11:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

I believe the world is divided on the issue... why do you ask? --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 12:47, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Hm, I misread. I thought the cities that were named after Tito are still called like that. I suppose they were called like that when Kosovo was still recognised as part of Serbia by most states. Sorry to bother you. 81.68.255.36 (talk) 17:57, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Kosovo is still recognised as part of Serbia by most states... --WhiteWriter ^speaks 12:40, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

...and also the cities that were named after Tito were all renamed back to their former names shortly after the dissolution of former Yugoslavia, still in early 1990s. Check each of the articles and you´ll see. FkpCascais (talk) 16:49, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Titova sahrana.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Titova sahrana.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests February 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Titova sahrana.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 02:38, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

harry truman about tito

why is there no sentence what said truman about tito and it is mention in others wikipedia

President Truman:"I am told that Tito murdered more than 400 000 of the opposition in Yugoslavia before he got himself established there as a dictator" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.147.37.176 (talk) 03:09, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

File:Tito's Ribbons.png Nominated for speedy Deletion

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