Talk:Kamehameha I

Bisexual?

In a magazine called Out Traveler, a sub-branch of the Advocate, a gay magazine, there is an article called "Hawaii's Polysexual Past." In it, it says, "[T]he great united of the Hawaiian Islands, King Kamehameha, even kept his own aikane [men who had court positions based on sexual relations with the royalty], according to the ship's logs: "He with many of his attendants took up quarters on board the ship for the Night [sic]: among them is a Young Man [sic] of whom he seems very fond, which does not in the least surprise us, as we have had opportunities before of being acquainted with a detestable part of his Character [sic] which he is not in the least anxious to conceal." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.228.129.9 (talk) 17:16, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Would be a magazine like to capitalize on things they don't understand, particularly from a western point of view. The word 'aikane means a close companion but to suggest that because they had an 'aikane therefore were into same sex relation s so typical. "Detestable character" as it was written. Explain to me, should we apply the same to these college freaks who follow closely the ridiculous western tradition of hazing where, in some cases, involved having sexual acts with each other? Mamoahina (talk) 21:11, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

When did Kamehameha The Great become King?

It was requested that Kamehameha I be moved to either Kamehameha I, King of Hawai'i, or King Kamehameha I of Hawai'i. I among others oppose such moves. As can be seen, the poll went stale. Requests denied. Arrigo 12:56, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Instead of having to place opinions on multiple pages, we should follow the example of the users over at the Japan manual of style pages and move all related discussions to one place. Thus, I'm requesting that we move all discussions about the naming conventions of Hawaiian monarchs to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hawaii/Manual of Style. 青い(Aoi) 06:19, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Image to save....

Royal consorts and monarchs

hi there. i´m trying to get a discussion going to change the rules on naming consorts, monarchs, etc.. it´s a bit of mess at the moment. maybe you wanna join in and give your opinion? feel free [1] cheers Antares911 23:57, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Owning land

Under "The First King of Hawaii" in the first paragraph it says, Kamehameha did not allow non-Hawaiians to own land; they would not be able to until the Great Mahele of 1848. I can understand writing about the Mahele, but was it necessary to point out that although "owning land" is a non-Hawaiian concept, that Kamehameha did not allow foreigners to own land? There was never an issue about owning land at that time. The whalers and traders there were only concerned about refueling and stocking their ships with provisions.

I'd prefer to see that section gone and maybe under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauikeaouli you could insert the Mahele which is vital under Kauikeaouli's reign.

Mamoahina 19:47, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Kamehameha I : was he giant?

Tradition has it that Kamehameha the great stood about 7 feet tall and weighed over 300 lbs. But I can't find any historical accounts to validate this.. does anyone know about any documentation of his giganticity?

That would be the first time I've heard about it. Curious if anything turns up. ;-) Jbetak 03:29, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmm.. Well in a past National Geographic online article, it makes a short reference to him and says he's that tall.

quote: "stop at Puukohola Heiau National Historic Site [...] In 1790, the 7-foot-tall [2.1-meter-tall] Kamehameha the Great built a temple to his war god here, as a prophet said he must in order to conquer the Hawaiian archipelago. Human sacrifices took place on the lava-rock platform at the site..."

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/destinations/Hawaii_Volcanoes_National_Park/Hawaii.html

The National Geographic can usually be trusted as accurate, but still, I want some more confirmation if he was really that huge.

The estimate for his height is (or so material scholars at Bishop Museum claim) based upon an extrapolation from the size of a feathered cloak worn by him that exists in the museum's collection. Such cloaks were made to be worn to a certain point on the leg. By measuring the cloak, one can estimate the size of the person for whom it was tailored.

It should be noted, however, that there seems to be a motive among said scholars to validate mythical claims as to his great stature (although they may very well be true) to support his modern role as a nearly superhuman cultural hero. I have not, of course, had the opportunity to measure the cloak myself, nor has any objective party had that opportunity to my knowledge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.235.94.8 (talk) 23:46, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

character question

What exactly is the strange appostrophe character I am seeing a lot in this article? It it a unicode modifier character (like an accent mark?) my browser is not rendering correctly? Asteron 17:41, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

About the 'Okina

That 'strange apostraphe mark' is a Hawaiian diacritical mark known as an 'okina. It is a glottal stop, a momentary stoppage of air. The sound rendered from said stoppage of air is the 'okina. The 'okina is a letter in the Hawaiian alphabet along with another diacritical mark, kahako, which lengthens the sound of a vowel.

suggest a move

In accordance to wiki policies of monarch's pages, this should be moved to 'Kamehameha I of Hawaii, as it is with most monarchs (kings in particular).The Gonz 22:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

"Birth of a hero" mythology

I don't want to start a flame war or anything, but does anyone else see similarities between the early life of Kamehameha I and Moses? This wiki article doesn't go into much detail about it, but I once saw a children's book about how Kamehameha became king and it sounded almost exactly like the story of Moses. It may have been artistic license, but it read almost word for word like the Bible.

It seems a little to "pat" for me. Is this more like the typical "birth of the hero" mythology the surrounds famous leaders (Gilgamesh, Sargon, Oedipus, Moses, etc.) to enhance their status and provide some mystery about them or was the story "enhanced" by the Bible?

I think the story of his childhood should be fleshed out more and something be mentioned about the similarity to Moses and other legendary heros and leaders. Crystalattice 17:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation?

Aloha from Hilo. The correct pronunciation is similar to the second you've listed - "ka-meh-ha-meh-ha" - with no real emphasis on any particular syllable. There are no silent letters in the language, so both "h"'s must be pronounced. All Hawaiian vowels are pronounced as follows: a=ah, e=eh, i=ih, o=oh, u=oo. If you can remember these simple rules, you'll never have trouble with Hawaiian words. Hope it's helpful!1happytootsie 23:05, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

How is "Kamehameha" pronounced? I've heard it both as "ka-MAY-a-MAY-ha" (which I think is right) and "ka-may-HA-may-HA". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.74.28.59 (talk) 01:32, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

You are right, the H is pronounced. The "ka-may-ah-may-ah" is incorrect. The word is mehameha, which refers to solitude. It's a reduplication meha, which is pronounced ME-HA, not ME-YA. The only time you'll hear the semivowel "Y" in the language is after the vowel I, as in ia, io (sometimes). Mamoahina (talk) 21:17, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

In my halau (hula school) we pronounced it "kah-MAY-ah-MAY-hah"--Nomenphile 04:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Which halau is this? So your kumu never learned to speak Hawaiian. Mamoahina (talk) 21:17, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

goku

I always thought that Dragonball had it right Jessew666 18:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

moving

E kala mai oukou iau. I dont know where, or how to make a comment here but i just wanted to note that Kamehameha's birth name was not Paiʻea as is written in the article. He was given th ename Paiʻea (hard-shelled crab) by the alii and koa (warriors) of Māui after his exemplary performance in battles on Māui 1775-1779. see..Kamakau, S.M.1961. Ruling Chiefs of Hawaiʻi. p84. Kamehameha Schoools Press. me ka haahaa.na.ron w. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.13.39.189 (talk) 03:08, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction. I'll look into this and try to make the necessary changes. —Viriditas | Talk 11:40, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I looked into this, and it seems we have a bit of a problem. All of the current sources say that Kamehameha was named Pa'ea from birth. I have access to a few more texts so I'll spend the next few days looking into this more thoroughly. I'm not sure why your book makes a claim that no other source can substantiate. Can you look at the source again and reproduce an exact quote? Thanks. —Viriditas | Talk 12:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

It's correct. I think the other person may have tried to specify that Kamehameha was given that name at birth, rather than already having a name when he was born? Not sure, but it is correct, once he was given the name Pai'ea, he was known as that. Mamoahina (talk) 21:20, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Another kamehameha def. It is Son gokus enery blast from dragonball z that he learned from master roshi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.108.228.138 (talk) 06:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

WIVES

Kamehameha's wife include Kaahumanu, Kalakua Kaheiheimaile, Keopuolani, but was there ever a Queen Namahana was she ever a wife of Kamehameha. Also the confusing thing was Queen Namahana Kaahumanu and Kalakua's mother Namahana'i'Kaleleokalani the ex-queen of Maui or their younger sister Lydia Namahana Pi'ia who later marry Prince Gideon Peleioholani La'anui —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.21.2 (talk) 01:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I can't tell if you meant that Namahana was or wasn't a wife of Kamehameha. But to clarify, Namahana was a wife, just as her sister Kaahumanu & Kalakua were. Namahana Kekuaipiia took on the name Lydia when she was baptized along with her sister Kaahumanu, who took on the name Elizabeth. Their mother was Namahanaikaleleokalani. And yes, the younger Namahana was also a wife to Peleioholani Laanui, who was also baptized at the same time on Dec. 4, 1825. Those bapitazed were Elizabeth Kaahumanu, Kalanimoku's infant son Leleiohoku, Lydia Namahana, Deborah Haakulou Kapule, Aaron Keliiahonui, Simeon Kaiu, Gideon Laanui, and Richard Kalaaiaulu. And those were only a few of the wives. I have the names of many, many others. Leleiohoku married Princess Ruth, Laanui had married Lydia Namahana, Theresa Owana Kaheiheimalie and Puohu, Deborah Kapule I believe is the granddaughter of Kaumualii, and Keliiahonui was the son of Kaumualii and Kaahumanu also married him.Mamoahina (talk) 21:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

You right except Deborah Kapule was one of the wives of Kaumualii not granddaughter.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:26, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea why I wrote that Deborah Kapule was a granddaughter because my notes says wife. I probably wasn't looking at my notes at that time. Thanks for pointing that out. Mamoahina (talk) 03:50, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Removed External Link

I removed this link from the article's external links section:

• Biography from the Hawaiʻi Royal Family's official site

The title of the site, which uses the title "official," makes its authenticity and encyclopedic value questionable. It claims to be the official site of the royal family, but it does not indicate which member of the royal family endorses it. I've gone through the site and it does have some detailed information in it, but I don't know how much of it is verifiable. Also, the site itself has a number of technical errors: for one thing, none of the images work. Can someone take a look at this and see if it's encyclopedic enough for inclusion in the article? 青い(Aoi) (talk) 23:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the link is useful, but of course needs to be qualified. As far as I can tell, it belongs to David Castro who re-published an old book on Keoua, the father of Kamehameha. He and the original author are distant descendants of Kamehameha's father. The name Castro used was "Ke Ali'i Publishing". It was isbn 978-0966958621, and since then there has been another publishing. The images show up for me, but the site uses some java script technology or something to make the images harder to download. This might not work in some browsers, but a year and a half later this might be less of an issue. I hope to work on this soon; it has sat around long enough. W Nowicki (talk) 01:54, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree, and yes it's based on that book not to mention this family are descendants of Kamehameha's older brother Kalokuokamaile hence they have their history passed down. Can't get more authentic or encyclopedic than that. Mamoahina (talk) 03:54, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Kamehameha's full name

I'm not sure if his full name should be broken down the way that it is. Can someone at least cite the source of writing it that particular way? It's obvious that if anyone actually speaks Hawaiian and most importantly can read Hawaiian, they would have seen how Hawaiian names were written before. To me, it can be subjective as to how the name should be written, and I'd prefer to see it written as one entire name. If we are going to separate it, why not separate Ka Mehameha Pai'ea, etc.? Mamoahina (talk) 03:56, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

House of Kamehameha Family Tree and Ancestry

Whoever did that family tree boxes could've done the dotted lines better by not having them cross into other spouses. Is there a way to edit or re-do them? Not bad of a diagram but even I was confused by the crossing of lines at first, and I've been doing genealogy for 22 years, doing Hawaiian royal genealogies for the past 15 or so years so if it weren't for my familiarity with all of these names, I would have no idea what the diagram really means. As for his ancestry, I thought I brought this up before but who decided to add "Princess" and other European titles to ancestors of Kamehameha? Let's keep it simple and stick to either chief/chiefess. Unless you actually know their exact ranking, I would stay clear of High Chief/Chiefess. For example, how many knew that Kamehameha was a naha chief? I'm guessing no one. Mamoahina (talk) 04:02, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I;m guessing you got your facts wrong because Kamehameha I was a wohi chief not a naha chief.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:30, 12 June 2011 (UTC)