Talk:Karna

Article basis

The article is based on popular folklore and movies, I have heard most of the anecdotes listed from one source or the other. (None of them have been "made up".) It has not been whetted against Vyasa's Mahabharatha. An excellent translation by Kisari Mohan Ganguli is available at scared-texts.com if someone has the time.~~

Karna was never the son of Kunti. Just as Krishna had created Ashwathama, he created the story of birth of Karn to Kunti. The whole purpose was to have the Pandavas victorious. Please read stambh.com/blog for further details on this matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stambh (talk • contribs) 10:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Statement needs explaining

"A deeper connection lies in the fact that the two felt strong ties to the Kaurava side, both through friendship and through blood." is tha author referring to Bhishma nd Drona who Arjuna loved? because Arjuna was very angry with the rest.~~  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satyask (talk • contribs) 14:03, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 

question about sanskrit font

can someone help me with the sanskrit fonts that are used on wikipedia. what font needs to be downloaded to be able to view and type words?Kshah223 (talk)

picture

The picture of karna on TV justs seems plain wrong, so I put a better one there. samphex 15:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Parasuram's Curse

I've never really heard it told that the Brahmin specifically stated Karan would die in the way he did, although I haven't read the Mahabharat myself. Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I've been told that (And have read in some books, including the Amar Chitra Katha issue from which someone got that picture) the brahmin cursed Karan to die as helplessly as the cow did at his hands. I wasn't sure if it would be kosher to edit it without saying anything, though. Nickoten 03:36, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Poor state of the Article

Much of the article seems to be very poorly written, and needs an editor who is willing to retranslate either Ganguly or Dutt's version. The administrator should be unbiased and logical in content delivery, and have above all a sound footing in English grammar. Thank you.

The article is hardly based on Mahabharata itself. It is almost totally based on the TV serial and the Mritunjay book, these two sorces differ greatly from the original and are definitely not canon. I have made some edits on points that are grossly different from the Epic, but article still needs a lot of improvement.Astavakra 06:43, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Well you could always make the changes yourself, as long as you make proper citations —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.22.53.86 (talk) 19:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

It would be good if there was someone knowledgeable about the subject

I dont seem to understand why the Curse of Bhoo Devi (Earth) is not stated. I am not convinced about the sources of the curse by the Brahmin in fact —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.197.126.104 (talk) 10:57, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Addition to the above:

I understand the concerns of author of 'poor state of the article'.

People interested in the facts kindly read Mahabharata as a book than reading Fiction based on Karna's life. Since the only source of ANY information regarding the entire history/epic (as it may turn out post-archaeological findings ) is Muni Vyasa's writings, it will be a seemly thing to consider HIS views about the characters of Mahabharat than those of writers of popular fiction. The Mahabharat is freely available at stores to those interested enough to find the reality. Kindly DO NOT post articles based on Indian mythology with reference material as 'Mrityunjay'.

In Mahabharata itself Karna has been very frequently displayed as the chief trouble-maker beside Shakuni, hardly heroic and praiseworthy except for his charitable ways. He has been defeated by Arjuna on numerous accounts directly and indirectly. Examples being: stealing King virat's herd with the Kauravas, At Draupadi Svayamvara when the Pandavas in the disguise of Brahmins are attacked, By the Gandharvas when rescuing Duryodhana (whom Arjun did manage to set free) and such other incidences. I am sorry that I do not have the Mahabharata right with me to provide instances with the references of the khanda.

Links

I had difficulty finding Links. Would anyone else add links to this article?

                                                        Nittii

Please make change in para "King of Anga and Friendship with Duryodhana". Guru "Dronacharya" refused to 'Karna' for playing dual with 'Arjuna', not 'Kripacharya'. Please let me know if I m wrong.:- VIJAY L —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.125.89.129 (talk) 10:51, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

all the information regarding karna's life is truly appreciable while we would like to know more about karna's curses.it is a real pity that the person who deserved the most received the least and was constantly insulted through out his life based on caste despite of the fact that he was even more talented than the pandavas and actually a better bowman than arjuna.i am still not sure about his participation in killing of abhimanyu and would like to know more about this subject...

i shall also appreciate writer's effort to inform us about arjuna's and karna's final combat with details...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.128.138 (talk) 10:12, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

karna my hero

all the information regarding karna's life is truly appreciable while we would like to know more about karna's curses.it is a real pity that the person who deserved the most received the least and was constantly insulted through out his life based on caste despite of the fact that he was even more talented than the pandavas and actually a better bowman than arjuna.i am still not sure about his participation in killing of abhimanyu and would like to know more about this subject...

i shall also appreciate writer's effort to inform us about arjuna's and karna's final combat with details...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.128.138 (talk) 10:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Done, and done :) Into the Cosmic Void (talk) 19:52, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Is 'Immaculate Conception' the right phrase, or should it rather be "Miraculous conception" or "Virgin birth"?

Firstly, there is significant confusion over whether this conception was indeed immaculate or if Kunti is described as virgin in the original Vyasa's [i.e Krishna Dwaipayana's] Mahabharat. Sanitised versions are definitely necessary though, given that the Mahabharat may be used to provide moral values to early readers - the wikipedia stance should make it clear that different sources targetting different readers [and in the case of the TV serial source, viewers] vary in regard to Kuntis virginity.

Secondly, in Christian theology, a common misconception is that the Immaculate conception refers to the conception of Jesus within the womb of the Virgin Mary. It doesn't, but rather refers to the conception of Mary herself within the womb of her mother taking place without sin (so that she would be a sinless vessel for the conception and gestation of Jesus.)

Alan Canon (talk) 13:01, 12 March 2009 (UTC) (I am an ethnic Christian with a great respect, interest and love for Hindu mythology.)

ARADEA (Karna) is The Best Warrior

Once Drona's revenge had been exacted, he decided to hold an exhibition of his students for the benefit of King Dhritarashtra. Dhitarashtra had pavilions and walls built around a clearing for the exhibition.

When the king and queen arrived at the grounds, the exhibition was inagurated by Wishma. Wishma was the original guru of the Pandavas and the Kauravas - Drona came by later. So, Wishma asked King Dhritarashtra for permission to start the exhibition and when that was given, Drona entered the grounds. Following him were Ashwattama, the Pandavas and the Kauravas.

Nakula and Sahadeva, the Pandava sons of Madri, proved to be the best swordsmen in the group. Yudhishthira, the eldest Pandava and the wisest of them all, proved to be the best chariot driver in the group. It was then that Bhima and Duryodhana competed in a heavy mace competition.

It was a close match with both Bhima and Duryodhana aiming and hitting all their targets. The roar of the crowd, their evenly matched skill, and the history of animosity between the two men, it was only a matter of time before they forgot the targets and started going at each other.

But Drona was having none of that, he made Aswattama stop the two of them. Aswattama swiftly pulled the maces from their hands, threw the heavy maces to the ground and brought the brawl to a stop. When Aswattama threw the maces to the ground, the earth tremored.

Meanwhile, Arjuna had entered the grounds and was amazing the crowd with his feats of archery. Arjuna performed the most amazing feats - he hid himself in a cloud, shot fire and water from his arrows even while streaming across the field in a chariot. Arjuna surpassed Nakula and Sahadeva in his swordsmanship, he surpassed Yudhishthira in his chariot, and even Bhima and Duryodhana with his mace. He surpassed every one who had gone before him. The crowd roared its awe and approval and the blind king, hearing the crowd, thanked heavens for Pandu's sons.

On this note of Arjuna's feat, Drona started to bring the exhibition to an end. But before Drona could end the competition came the sound of a Kshatriya challenge from outside the walls of the ground. Hearing the sound a cupped hand makes with an armpit, Drona ordered that the challenge be accepted. In came Aradea, half-brother of the Pandavas, but son of a charioteer.

Aradea, son of the sun-god himself, came in his golden armor. He was handsome and awe-inspiring. He bowed to Drona and then facing Arjuna, informed Arjuna that he would match every deed of Arjuna's.

Aradea then proceeded to do everything that Arjuna had done before him, only he did with greater ease and poise. Aradea's performance was so gracious and his skill so apparent, that everyone agreed that Aradea was the greatest warrior that they had seen that day. And Wishma and Drona and Arjuna could only marvel at the warrior they saw that day.

Just who was he? Wishma went over to Aradea, and asked him who he was. "Which royal family do you belong to?", he asked. At the phrasing of that question, Aradea turned pale. Duryodhana, noticing this, chastised Wishma for forgetting his own roots. Duryodhana asked Aradea, after taking him aside, where he was from. "Anga," replied Aradea, the half-brother of the Pandavas who had been abandoned by his mother soon after his birth. Duryodhana immediately proclaimed the great warrior, greater than even Arjuna, king of Anga.

Aradea was tremendously grateful. "What do I have to give to you in return," he asked Duryodhana. Not only had Duryodhana treated him kindly without inquiring into his origins, he was offering to make him a king. "All I want," said Duryodhana, "is your friendship."

So it was that on the field that was meant to showcase the deeds of Arjuna, that Aradea was anointed the king of Anga. Seeing his son anointed a king, the charioteer Adhiratha with pride approached Aradea. And Aradea, his son, his hair still wet from the anointing oil, knelt before Adhiratha.

Seeing that Aradea was the son of a charioteer, Bhima ridiculed the scene. "What is the use," he asked Duryodhana, "of making this charioteer a king? He is not a warrior; he should stick to driving chariots!" But Aradea faced Bhima down. "This is my father," he told Bhima, "Adhiratha taught me all the weapons you saw me use today. I have always looked for a home, and Duryodhana here has given me his friendship."

Thus it was that Aradea became the loyal friend of Duryodhana, in return for Duryodhana's kindness on the exhibition fields. And everyone there knew that the greatest warrior of them all, greater than even the much-talked-about Arjuna, was Aradea, king of Anga and friend of Duryodhana. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.178.55.123 (talk) 02:47, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 95.168.183.161, 10 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Add films... There is a recent film in Indosiar (Indonesia) that portrays Karna and Arjuna..

95.168.183.161 (talk) 13:47, 10 January 2011 (UTC) Not done: You need to provide the exact details of what you want to add--in this case, the names and details of the films, along with reliable sources that verify that those films show Karna. Edit requests are basically just like you editing the article yourself--that is, you need to tell us the exact words that should go in the article, not just provide general info. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:58, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Copyedited

Richard asr (talk) 13:44, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I have standardized the spelling to British English wherever I have spotted a US variant, since the article seemed to use predominantly British English throughout. I hope this is correct. Very interesting article. I have added some red links on interesting terms that may be unfamiliar to a Western reader – again, I hope this is okay. A few more inline citations are needed, especially towards the end of the article, but maybe also some chapter-and-verse refs for the main story, possibly from books in the Bibliography. Since this is the English Wikipedia, for the general reader, I have included a mention of Homer and the Irish warrior hero (and sun deity?) Cú Chulaind, for background and comparison. Richard asr (talk) 13:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Tejasomina, 14 April 2011

This is about the Brahmana's curse on Karna. According to the translation of the original sanskrit scripture by KM Ganguli,

At that time, when the hour of Karna's death had come, Kala, approaching invisibly, and alluding to the Brahmana's curse, and desirous of informing Karna that his death was near, told him, "The Earth is devouring thy wheel!" Indeed, O foremost of men, when the hour of Karna's death came, the high brahmastra that the illustrious Bhargava had imparted unto him, escaped from his memory. And the earth also began to devour the left wheel of his car. Then in consequence of the curse of that foremost of Brahmanas, Karna's car began to reel, having sunk deep into the earth and having been transfixed at that spot like a sacred tree with its load of flowers standing upon an elevated platform. When his car began to reel from the curse of the Brahmana, and when the high weapon he had obtained from Rama no longer shone in him through inward light, and when his terrible snake-mouthed shaft also had been cut off by Partha, Karna became filled with melancholy.

Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08090.htm

Looks like Karna's chariot wheel sinking into mud is due to the Brahmana's curse. I think we can find more references in the same translation to support this

Also, the earth's goddess curse on Karna is not mentioned in Rajagopalachari's (Rajaji's) Mahabharata. Though this version is a very concise one, Rajaji would at least mention an incident that happened between Karna and earth goddess

Source: http://www.gita-society.com/pdf2011/mahabharata.pdf

I could not find any incident about earth goddess curse on Karna in KM Ganguli's version either. I tried searching from the sacred texts website. Couldn't find any relevant results.

So, summarizing this, the second paragraph of "More curses" part can be modified to this way (The exact lines from Rajaji's version pg 190)

One day, when Karna was practising with his bow in the forest near Parasurama's ashrama, a brahmana's cow was accidentally hit and killed. The brahmana was angry and uttered a curse on Karna: "In battle, your chariot wheels will stick in the mud and you will be done to death, even like this innocent cow which you have killed."

Tejasomina (talk) 18:29, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

N Not done A specific edit request is needed with what needs changed and with a source to back up the change. It should not be a direct copy of the source text per the copyright and plagiarism issues involved. Please reactivate the template when this information is added. Woody (talk) 19:51, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Addition after comments from Woody. Content to be changed is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karna#More_curses The lines "Karna was cursed also by the Earth goddess, and by a Brahmin. The story is this: Departing from Parashurama's ashram, Karna wandered for some time. On his way, he slayed a cow that was rushing at him by shooting an arrow. Incensed by this incident, the Brahmin who owned the cow cursed him, stating that as he had killed a helpless animal, Karna too would be killed in the same way when he was most helpless with his concentration being diverted away from his enemy at a crucial moment."

It should be changed to "According to the original scripture written by Vyasa, Karna was cursed by a Brahmin for killing his cow. One day, Karna was practising his skills with bow and arrows near the ashram of Sage Parashurama. One of his arrows accidentally killed a cow. The cow belonged to a poor Brahmana who had been making his living from the cow. The Brahmana got angry due to Karna's deed and cursed him that he would become helpless in the same way the innocent cow had become, by his chariot wheels getting stuck to his ground"

The line "Thus, Karna was cursed on three separate and independent occasions. and each of these curses came true at the same crucial moment in the Kurukshetra war, leaving him weaponless and without a chariot."

It should be changed to "These two curses play a prominent role in Karna's defeat in the Kurukshetra war. Though Karna is shown as an extremely competent warrior, sometimes more skillful than Arjuna, the timing of his curses in crucial moments of his battle with Arjuna brought him doom"

Sources are the ones mentioned above

N Not done you appear to be able to edit the article yourself at this point. No need for a edit-semi request. Monty₈₄₅ 03:33, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

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Solving issues

Karna was said to be the best warrior of Mahabharata

But that cannot be true

Since Arjuna had defeated Karna before,Arjuna must be better

However Krishna praised Karna,but only to make Arjuna more careful

Bhisma was undefeated in the war or anywhere else,even Arjuna had to take help of Shikandhi to take him down

Also Bhisma had beaten Parshurama so he muste be the best,his father's boon to die at his will also helped

And yes Karna did have three curses working simultaneously as well as Indra's plan to weaken him He was a great warrior but not the greatest

The Mahabharata is not something to be talked about details that much,but to learn the Gita and the lesson that righteousness[Dharma] always wins,somehow — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.254.156.192 (talk) 12:56, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 December 2011

On the topic ( Karna ) and the Sub topic - Sixteenth day: Defeating and sparing the lives of all Pandavas The following passage has not been cited. I have found the source. The passage is: "Hear in brief, O son of Pandu! I regard the mighty car-warrior Karna as thy equal, or perhaps, thy superior! With the greatest care and resolution shouldst thou slay him in great battle. In energy he is equal to Agni. As regards speed, he is equal to the impetuosity of the wind. In wrath, he resembles the Destroyer himself. Endued with might, he resembles a lion in the formation of his body. He is eight ratnis in stature. His arms are large. His chest is broad. He is invincible. He is sensitive. He is a hero. He is, indeed, the foremost of heroes."

The source is: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08072.htm Please cite it now. Thank You.

59.92.45.100 (talk) 11:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Done --Jnorton7558 (talk) 19:35, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 December 2011

"Duryodhana, the oldest of the one-hundred sons of the blind king Dhritarashtra"

Even though technically the above sentence is correct, i strongly feel the we have to use "eldest" here.

Reason:

1. He is the eldest of Kauravas.
2. The fact that he is alive when this took place does make him oldest. But it does makes one ( at least made me ) think he was not the eldest.
3. Eldest is more appropriate to emphasize rank and seniority, which in this context is very much valid.

Edit request on 14 Jan 2011

This line is incorrect in the article on Karna. "Karna pleaded that any student would have acted in the same way and that he was the son of Vasusena"

Karna would've said to Parashurama that he was the son of Adhiratha. I believe one of Karna's names is Vasusena as mentioned in the article somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.182.46 (talk) 16:29, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Khraghesh (talk) 04:43, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

• - Y Done - seems like a reasonable minor alteration - Youreallycan (talk) 23:31, 21 December 2011 (UTC)