Talk:Caesars Palace Grand Prix
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[edit] Merge proposal
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
I think this article should be merged with Vegas Grand Prix, since both articles cover a variety of racing categories. Thoughts? DH85868993 08:20, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- Never - this article is about something happening this year, while the Formula 1 article is one that happened 25 years ago. It's just too big a difference. Zero76 11:35, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
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- I'm guessing when you write "this article" you actually mean Vegas Grand Prix. This is actually the talk page for [Las Vegas Grand Prix] - the "Merge" notices on both articles link here, so all the discussion can occur in one place. I'd probably agree with you if Las Vegas Grand Prix covered only the F1 race. But the results table includes results from many different categories, from as recently as 2005. DH85868993 03:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- I think that both articles should not be merged, but should instead only cover their respective racing series. The Vegas GP article gets too far off-topic. It would be okay to include a shorter section on the history of racing at the city. Royalbroil 04:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Suggest instead of merging, they are properly separated so one exclusively refers to the F1 event and the other to the American Open Wheel events. AlexJ 09:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'd support that. What should we do with the CanAm and IMSA/ALMS results in this article - just ditch them altogether? DH85868993 10:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Suggest instead of merging, they are properly separated so one exclusively refers to the F1 event and the other to the American Open Wheel events. AlexJ 09:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- I think that both articles should not be merged, but should instead only cover their respective racing series. The Vegas GP article gets too far off-topic. It would be okay to include a shorter section on the history of racing at the city. Royalbroil 04:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'm guessing when you write "this article" you actually mean Vegas Grand Prix. This is actually the talk page for [Las Vegas Grand Prix] - the "Merge" notices on both articles link here, so all the discussion can occur in one place. I'd probably agree with you if Las Vegas Grand Prix covered only the F1 race. But the results table includes results from many different categories, from as recently as 2005. DH85868993 03:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not entirely convinced by separation. Can we take a little time to discuss some general guidelines about this sort of thing? For what it's worth, my principles would be:
- The name of the race (edit: usually) refers to the event, not the race track - hence it doesn't matter where the Spanish Grand Prix goes, it's still the Spanish Grand Prix and should have a single article. (Potentially even to another country, see 1982 Swiss Grand Prix) This may be a Euro-centric view - does it hold for North American racing? (Edit: There are exceptions - some races are identified with a particular track: It is hard to imagine the Indianapolis 500, 24 hours of Le Mans or Oulton Park Gold Cup taking place elsewhere. 4u1e 16:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC))
- Similarly, the track should have its own article, because almost all tracks (even the Indianapolis Motor Speedway!) are used for several different and clearly identifiable races.
- The specific class of racing is not usually the defining characteristic of a given race - see Monaco Grand Prix, 24 Hours of Daytona and Pau Grand Prix, and many others, where the racing category has changed several times over the years. In one year Monaco was a sports car race! Again - is this approach Euro-centric, or is it also true in the States?
- It is best to use the 'plain' name of the race (i.e. not the one based on the current sponsor). The reason for this is simply consistency in Wikipedia terms - sponsor names change, plain names normally don't. I am aware that this is emphatically not the approved approach for North American racing, so this may be one point where the motorsport projects simply agree to differ!
I haven't read into the different variants of the race in Vegas sufficiently to express an opinion on this, before I do, are those general principles appropriate, or does what seems obviously right to me simply betray my European-ness? (or British-ness, or English-ness, or East Anglian-ness) Alternate guidelines welcome! 4u1e 10:58, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- From a British standpoint, I would say that approach is also used in North America. The 24 Hours of Daytona has switched between sports cars, Grand-Am and Prototypes during its existence. Also, the Detroit Indy Grand Prix has switched between the Renaissance Centre track and the Belle Isle track. In my opinion, the articles should be merged because they are the same event. Readro 12:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- There are not very many examples of naming the race after the city, I applaud Readro for finding any examples. I emphatically agree with point #2 - the track needs its own article. That article should address the many types of car raced at the track. As to the event, my opinion is that the events are from fundamentally different types of cars (F1 vs. IndyCar), and there is a significant number of years between the two events. The later event doesn't feel like a continuation of the earlier events. In my mind the cars raced at the 24 Hours of Daytona are a progression of cars based on the original sports car. My impression may be wrong, so feel free to call me on that. I do remember seeing separate articles for two races with the same name in both IndyCar and NASCAR. I think they were at the same track. I would add links if I could remember the situation. Royalbroil 16:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- What about Long Beach Grand Prix? It has run continously, on the same track I believe, from 1975 to present for Formula 5000 (1975), Formula One (1976 - 1983), and CART/Champ Car from 1984 to present. The question there is was it known as the Long Beach Grand Prix between '76 and '83? It doesn't appear as such on the F1 calendar. Just batting examples around, trying to get a feel for what the 'rules' might be..... 4u1e 21:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- There should be one article, with a better delineation between the different events to call themselves the Las Vegas Grand Prix, and, in turn, stating that the current event is called Vegas, without the Las, by CCWS. --Chr.K. 08:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
- What about Long Beach Grand Prix? It has run continously, on the same track I believe, from 1975 to present for Formula 5000 (1975), Formula One (1976 - 1983), and CART/Champ Car from 1984 to present. The question there is was it known as the Long Beach Grand Prix between '76 and '83? It doesn't appear as such on the F1 calendar. Just batting examples around, trying to get a feel for what the 'rules' might be..... 4u1e 21:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- There are not very many examples of naming the race after the city, I applaud Readro for finding any examples. I emphatically agree with point #2 - the track needs its own article. That article should address the many types of car raced at the track. As to the event, my opinion is that the events are from fundamentally different types of cars (F1 vs. IndyCar), and there is a significant number of years between the two events. The later event doesn't feel like a continuation of the earlier events. In my mind the cars raced at the 24 Hours of Daytona are a progression of cars based on the original sports car. My impression may be wrong, so feel free to call me on that. I do remember seeing separate articles for two races with the same name in both IndyCar and NASCAR. I think they were at the same track. I would add links if I could remember the situation. Royalbroil 16:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
A recent development which may affect this discussion: WP:F1 is considering changing references to the F1 race in Las Vegas from "Las Vegas Grand Prix" to "Caesars Palace Grand Prix". In which case, (I think it's likely that) Las Vegas Grand Prix would possibly be renamed as Caesars Palace Grand Prix and restricted to discussing only the 4 races (2 F1, 2 Indycar) held at Caesars Palace from 1981-84. Which might affect views on whether or not to merge the two articles. -- DH85868993 02:48, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
- I would say we hold off on the merge until they decide the final outcome of that move. JohnnyBGood t c VIVA! 00:32, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I feel they shouldn't be merged. There are just too many differences (different categories, different tracks) plus the length of time between the events. Lynx Raven Raide 02:50, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I say merge, agreeing with statements above. There might be many differences, but the name is essentially the same and both are open wheel races. If you look for one, you probably want to know about the other too. I don't like the idea of retroactively renaming the formula one event. E.G. (talk) 22:38, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
