Talk:Layla and Majnun

A note concerning the reference to occult literature

I didn't explain about it too much because it would be a deviation from the subject , but for justification of the reference that I added ,the name Laylah is used in modern occult literature in connection with the concept of Scarlet Woman created by Aleister Crowley the spelling used seems a deliberate one to suggest both a reference to Leyli and the words for night in Arabic/Hebrew.Here is a reference which reads "This now introduces the principal character of this book, Laylah, who is the ultimate feminine symbol, to be interpreted on all planes.But in this chapter, little hint is given of anything beyond physical love...because Laylah is the one object of devotion to which the author ever turns.Note the introduction of the name of the Beloved in acrostic in line 15." the source of this quote.Pasha Abd 05:05, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

It issometimes cited by Sufis to explain somethong (concerning (strength of ?) love). --219.110.233.130 (talk) 11:23, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

This story is a persian story and not an arab story. People, get your story right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atirna81 (talk • contribs) 19:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

(Comments moved from Talk:Leily and Majnoun)

What's with the spelling? Do Persians call her "Leyli", or is this just a misreading of ليلى which should be "Layla"? - Mustafaa 17:53, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Leyli, Leyla, Layla, Laila, Majnun, Majnoun... I have seen the names spelled many ways. I am not sure which is the preferred. If you have any information about this story or a copy of the Persian text and any insight into it feel free to change the page, etc. If youwant to make this a redirect to Layla and Majnun that would work as well. -gren

Well, I don't know anything about the Persian version, only the Arabic one; but the Arabic story, called Layla and Majnun, is a major medieval romance. - Mustafaa 23:20, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's all from the basis and this page isn't only for Nizami's version. I only mentioned that he penned it because that's what I knew. So if you can add more about the story in general that would be good. I just read [this] about it but it but I don't think gives me suitable knowledge to write about it. Regarding the meaning of Layla... I just think you are right. I used [this] link for much of my information. Sorry for what I got wrong and thanks for fixing it. -gren

I'm pretty sure that the spelling is Leyli...in any case, that's how we pronounce it (we being Persians). I don't know about the other versions... -Zhaneel

Images

http://www.asia.si.edu/exhibitions/past.htm# -- if you go to the section and then click on the link the Smithsonian has a flash thing with some images. Interesting looking and possibly a source for a good non-modern (free copyright) photo. gren グレン 09:01, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the spelling of Leyla/Leyli. In Arabic Leyla is spelling with a 'ye' at the end, but it has an implied 'alif' often written as a superscript in vocalized text. Hence the correct Arabic pronunciation is Leyla. In Persian it has become traditional to pronounce the name as it is written in purely unvocalized form, hence pronounced Leyli. So the spelling problem only exists in Latin characters.

Majnun would be good transcription for both Persian and Arabic. Mecnun represents the modern Turks use of 'c' for the English 'j' sound and the fact that they hear the first vowel as closer to an 'e' than to an 'a'. Languages like French need to use 'ou' to represent 'u' hence Medjnoun, etc. etc. DAVUD 92.140.77.106 (talk) 11:55, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Eric Clapton

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"Laylah" wasnt inspired by Laylah and Majnun! Laylah was inspired by Clapton's new wife at the time, Patti Boyd, ex of George Harrison (and inspiration for Beatles hit "Something") -User: Afghan Historian

Yes, and I always get puzzled looks when I mention that trivia! Also in Hindi and Urdu मजनूँ/مجنوں majnūṅ; is used as an adj. to describe someone [m.] hopelessly, madly in love in movie lyrics; as well as poetry (in the local extension of the Sufi tradition mostly; e.g. Ghālib, et al.). And as earlier mentioned, yes, I believe (or so my Urdu dictionary says) that ليلى is derived from ليلة, meaning 'night'. Both my Hindi and Urdu dictionaries also say the original meaning of Majnūn means 'possessed by a jinn (thus the love-sick metaphor)', but I would leave this to someone who knows Arabic, beyond my very limited recognition of the Ar. word construction. I have also heard a Persian acquaintance, or two, say the symbolism of their names correlate with the relationship of the night with the day. This fits perfectly within the framework of both several occult systems and most neo-pagan paths; but I'm not sure if this male/female=sun/moon interpretation was intended by Nizami. Am I also the only one who has heard it suggested that the star-crossed love stories; particularly of chivalric Europe (Romeo & Juliette, Tristan & Isolte, Deirdre, etc, etc, etc.), derive from this story? I think Anarkali is a pretty obvious Mughal variant. As to the Layla wa Majnun story; it is itself quite possibly derived from Vis u Ramin. Khirad 23:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it was. Clapton was given a copy and used the story metaphorically to describe his love for Boyd, who at that time was still married to George Harrison. The sixth track of Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs is a direct quote from Nezami. ASigIAm213

قيس بن الملوح Qays ibn al-Mullawah

Khoikhoi why did YOU delete my edits on Layla and Majnun article this epic is well-known as Arabic tale and the name قيس بن الملوح Qays ibnul mulawwah is clearly Arabic from ( Othra عذرةan Arabic tribe )in northern Hijaz which is now in Saudi Arabia ......or you just want to delete every thing related to Arabic and Arab people as usual .....This is not fair I can delete (vandalize) a lot of other articles but this does not mean I can delete the truth please be fair for the neutrality of Wikipedia...and stop your unacceptable reverting.Aziz1005 22:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

As far as I know in Persian the word devaneh ديوانيه means crazy where in Arabic مجنون Majnun means crazy from the verb junna جن (with shadda شدة )which means became crazy .Also for your own knowledge the original poems [1][2] in this epic have been written in ArabicAziz1005 22:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Just a small correction Aziz, Qays and Layla were both from Bani Aamir not Bani Uthra. Jameel Buthaina was from Bani Uthra..

Style

Hope nobody minds, I improved the English a little - get the impression some of this was not written by native English speakers. Really interesting story.Jeffsunshine (talk) 18:14, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

"Notorious"?

The text has the following "Layla has also been mentioned in many works by the notorious Aleister Crowley in many of his religious texts, perhaps most notably, in The Book of Lies." Is "notorious" quite the right word for use in an objective article?

Layla and Majnun?

It's knows as Majnun Layla means " Crazy of Layla " .. not Layla and majnun .. Majnun is not a name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.196.168.55 (talk) 22:56, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

"Azerization" totally POV and inaccurate

So-called "Azerization" is not even a valid term or concept. Nizami is universally accepted as a primarily Persian language poet. This type of Azeri nationalism and not only POV hijacking of articles, but inserting completely inaccurate and uneducated theories is ridiculous. IranianGuy (talk) 06:11, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Well the Persian Nationalism plaguing Wikipedia everywhere is equally uneducated and inaccurate. I know Persian Nationalists believe Azerbaijan to be there's much like Iraq, but that does not necessitate a uniform cultural or ethnic identity. Despite Nizami writing in the Persian langauge, it does not rule out placing some distinct Azeri cultural influences into his adaptation. Your arguement based solely on language doesn't cover cultural influences which could be different. I am no expert on Nizami, so I wont change anything, but just to point out it is possible for him to write in the Persian language, but retain a different identity and culture. Just like Avicenna wrote in the Arabic language but retained Persian/Bacterian culture and identity. Pink Princess (talk) 02:24, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The response by Pink Princess is highly accurate. This less an attempt at promoting Azerization and more to do with accuracy of information. If you knew Azeri, you would understand the translation of the poet's full name. Nizami Ganjavi means Nizami from Ganja - that is the literal translation. Ganja also happens to be a prehistoric city formed in the 5th century. If i were to write a poem in English, that doesnt necessarily make me of British or American origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.72.102.184 (talk) 14:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Persian Section

The Persian Adaptation section veers wildly off the stated topic title, and returns back to the Arabic origins of the epic story. I think the section where is leaves it's Persian Focus should be isolated and retitled to something more appropriate to the subject it covers. So I am going to move/add a new title to the latter parts of the current section on the Persian copying. Pink Princess (talk) 02:08, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I moved the section on the PURELY ARABIC "Virgin Love Stories" to the main section, as it is neither started nor developed by Persians who merely copied it. It had no place in the Persian Adaptaion section. No sourced material were deleted, this is merely a move from one inappropriate section to a more appropriate one. Please discuss any issue here before moving it, or it will be moved back and reported. Peace. Pink Princess (talk) 02:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)