Talk:Lebanon

New 7 Wonders

Lebanon has entered the N7W competition for Jeita Grotto and few months ago the Lebanese Cedars were also competing. Can u plz mention them in the article and talk more about Jeita Grotto? Thank you very much — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.187.113.202 (talk) 09:40, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Lebanon/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Reaper Eternal (talk · contribs) 13:15, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I looked at the article, and, to be frank, it looks pretty bad. Please source everything, and then I will re-look at the article. Cheers! Reaper Eternal (talk) 13:15, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I just noticed that you haven't even edited the article! What was the purpose of this nomination? Reaper Eternal (talk) 13:22, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I'll start sourcing everything. And about your second question, I didn't see any rule that said I needed to have edited the article before. Ramaksoud2000 (talk) 22:08, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

You might want to put it on hold. Ramaksoud2000 (talk) 02:37, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Why did you nominate this now? This is practically quick-fail material. Do the work beforehand and get it up to a reasonable state, then nominate it. To point out a few things to work on: manual of style, prose, grammar (just a quick note: "Christian holidays are celebrated following both the Gregorian Calender and Julian Calender" *Calendar), references (as stated by Reaper above) but the main problem here is completion! Good articles boast some of the best material on Wikipedia, and since Lebanon is one of the most important topics available, we need it to be complete in all aspects, some sections here are only a sentence long. This needs a lot of work. Oh and sorry to butt in on your review, Reaper Eternal. Aranea Mortem ^{(talk to me)} 05:27, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Additionally, this should be listed under "Places" not "Geography". Geography mainly entails general landforms. Aranea Mortem ^{(talk to me)} 05:30, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Ok. Fail it. I'll renominate it when everything is done. Ramaksoud2000 (talk) 15:37, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Quick to-do list

I noticed this article is being nominated for GA status. However, there are a number of items standing in the way before GA could be achieved. This is just a list I whipped up after a quick look at the article. Although the following are just basic suggestions without much detail, I think it could help to improve this article tremendously. Also, just as a point of reference, editors of this article ought to take a look at other country articles that are GAs: United States, Azerbaijan and Switzerland among others.

• The "Geology and archaeology" section should be merged with the Geography section.
• The History section needs to be much better organized and even revamped.
  • There's way too much emphasis on the conflicts of Lebanon's independence and post-independence era especially the events of the past decade: The French Mandate and independence, The 1948 War, the Civil Wars (1958, 1970s-1990), and the 20th-century Israeli invasion/occupation, and everything that happened before Israel's withdrawal in 2000 could fit into several paragraphs under the title "Independence and civil wars." The Cedar revolution, UN investigation, the Nahr al-Bared conflict, the 2008 civil strife, and the government collapse and re-formation could all fit into a several paragraphs in another section called "Contemporary era" if we just include the brief and most important aspects of each event. We could relegate the removed text to History of Lebanon.
  • There's very little information, if any, about Lebanon's history under the Phoenicians, Romans/Byzantines, various Arab Caliphates, Crusaders, Mamluks, and the Ottomans.
  • I didn't see any mention of the Ottoman era Druze-Maronite alliance that many say provided the roots of Lebanon's modern statehood.

Comment: I didn't see any mention of it in any other Lebanese articles. Maybe just once in one. I also didn't find it lots of sources. I don't know if its that important. Ramaksoud2000 (talk) 00:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

It might have been a rivalry/war (as FunkMonk has noted below) and not an alliance, but it's certainly worth mention. I'll post some sources about it on this page a little later. --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:12, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

• The "Foreign relations" section should be expanded especially since Lebanese politics is heavily influenced by foreign countries.
• The "Military" section should also be expanded a bit if possible and perhaps a few sentences about Hezbollah's superior strength to the Lebanese Army should be mentioned if it's not already covered somewhere in the History section.

Comment: I don't know if they are "superior" to the Lebansese Army. They certainely are strong but not superior. Ramaksoud2000 (talk) 02:58, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Comment: Expanded section. Ramaksoud2000 (talk) 05:05, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Of course, the Lebanese Army is the only officially legitimate fighting force in the country, but I think it's notable to point out that Hezbollah is stronger. Again, this could be mentioned in the History section instead. I'm not sure which section is more appropriate. --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:49, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Comment: I'm saying that I don't think they are stronger. They are certainly notable but not stronger. The Lebanese Army has four times as many men and UNIFL and the U.S. on their side. Hezbollah has war-torn Syria and Iran on their side. Ramaksoud2000 ^{(talk to me)} 00:50, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I was talking more about military capabilities and not alliance networks. But in any case, Hezbollah's strength should be mentioned somewhere. Whether they're stronger, more advanced, or more equipped will be information provided to us by reliable sources. --Al Ameer son (talk) 22:01, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

• The "Population projection" section should be better organized and perhaps just renamed to "Population." The points should be converted into a chart/table.

Comment: I left it at Population projection because that's what it is. The current population is in the above paragraph. Ramaksoud2000 (talk) 04:36, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I just took a quick look and guess I missed that. However, I fail to see the point of having a table about the projected population every decade until 2100. If anything, the table should be replaced with the past and current populations if possible (I know there hasn't been an official census for a while). Also, on another note, it might be a good idea to have a chart of the current populations of the 5 or 10 largest Lebanese localities. --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:49, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

• The Culture and Media sections should be merged, rewritten, and fully referenced.
• Tourism subsection needs to be referenced.

--Al Ameer son (talk) 21:14, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm striking through the things that are done. Ramaksoud2000 (talk) 01:57, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for getting at this promptly. You should notify WikiProject Lebanon that you're working towards GA. Hopefully, you could get some helping hands ;) Cheers! --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:49, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

The history section is pretty lacking, no mention of the 1860s war, the 1958 American intervention and so on. The Ottoman period was even described with "medieval" as the header! FunkMonk (talk) 08:42, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi all, I will tend to the geography / geology section, I disagree that the geology and archaeology sections should be merged. I will expand the archaeology section with the resources i have, i may also add some info about the flora somewhere in the article. as for the history section it really reflects the putrefying common history we have about Lebanon due to our heavily biased education system; It's a mess that intimidates the most experienced of editors :S Now there's also another issue, some sources are quoted out of context, we're in for a challenge guys, i used to dread the day when i would have to do this :S Eli+ 19:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Yea the article is in bad shape in its present form, but it could be turned around with time and effort. Of course, that's easier said than done. I didn't even think about sources quoted out of context :( Honestly, I don't know too much about Lebanon's pre-Mandate history, but I'll look for some google book sources and post them on this page in a different section. Also, the History of Lebanon article has some info that could be transferred here in reduced form. The idea, of course, isn't to have an extensive History section. The problem is there's virtually nothing about Lebanon's historic past, yet we have a ridiculous amount of info on recent events. Luckily for us, the Lebanese education ministry doesn't edit wikipedia (unless I'm being naive) so I think interested editors shouldn't have to worry too much while working on this aspect of the article. Besides some clean up, I don't if I'll be doing much editing myself but I'll try to contribute what I can. Anyway, good luck everyone! --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:12, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Guys why is there a GDP table in the history section? Eli+ 18:06, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

How appropriate and necessary is it, to put the French name of Lebanon "Liban" in the introduction of the article?

How appropriate and necessary is it, to put the French name of Lebanon "Liban" in the introduction (and info box) of the article? Although Lebanon (as well as Syria, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco) was ruled as a French mandate and French is widespread as second or third language, Arabic is the only "official national" language of Lebanon according to the (latest) Lebanese constitution, and French is not the official language of Lebanon, and the Lebanese constitution stipulates "A law determines the cases in which the French language is to be used". This is also the case of the other Arab countries which were ruled by France and are much more thoroughly Francophone than Lebanon (except Syria which is even less Francophone than Lebanon), where French is not an official language of these countries and does not have any official status at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.224.7.220 (talk) 01:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)