Talk:Legal positivism

Problem

The sentence which states there is no connection between "law ethics, hence marality" makes no sense. Indeed it is not a complete thought. I had hoped to figure out how to correct it but the idea itself is so obscured by the poor language that I do not know what is being expressed. I have a few suggestions: there is no necessary connection between law and ethics. But then what of this "hence, morality" part? What does it mean? That morality itself comes from the disconnect between law and ethics? Could someone please correct this, it hurts my brain to look at it?

Alexy, POV

It is far from a certainty, and definitely far from an undisputed fact, that 'freedom is of obvious ethical significance', which the article without quoting any other source specifically stated before I modified it slightly to say 'according to Alexy...'. I thought I should report this edit in the discussion section. 213.112.137.177 15:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Plagarism

The entire page appears to be copied from [this website:=http://www.answers.com/topic/legal-positivism] Either that, or they copied you.

Yoda921 07:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC)Yoda

If you look at the blue bar, you'll see answers.com gives credit to wikipedia. They do this all the time. Danielx (talk) 10:26, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Against merging "laws without ethical content"

The fact that laws can be devoid of ethical content (which is different from claiming that laws can be devoid of an ethical basis) is not disputed by natural lawyers. It is not therefore a tenet of legal positivism that distinguishes it from its rivals. Hence the article "laws without ethical content" should NOT be merged to this article on legal positivism.

Simple facts, no?

Aren't the two points in the introduction simple facts? The first seems to derive from the definition of the word "law" itself. Is there an opposing school of thought which contradicts either one of these? Danielx (talk) 10:31, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Also against merging "Laws without ethical content"

The article, "Laws without ethical content" defines such a law as "one that does not proscribe or mandate an act because of the act's moral or ethical value, but for some other reason." Positivism expresses no view on the motivation behind laws. It simply holds that law is a human posit, and does not flow DIRECTLY form morality itself. Humans may posit laws because of our moral convictions or for any other reason. But, according to positivism, these laws are still human posits. Don Loeb (talk) 01:07, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Contemporary Practice?

Are there U.S. supreme court judges who would be considered Legal Positivists? I came to this page from the entry on Holmes, and wonder how this legal philosophy is used in today's world. Who uses it? How prevalent is it taught and practiced in the legal profession at large, and in the top courts of the U.S.? Also, is it strictly American, or is it also a philosophy in other cultures? (added this note on Oct. 23, 2008)

"Of course" non-NPOV

The article currently claims "Of course, in the Republic of the United States, the citizens have granted through the Constitution authority and power to the government to determine and enforce the laws." I can see multiple objections to this statement - which is disputed and non-NPOV as well as cn - including:

• Objections to the social contract theory in general, e.g. from anarchists.
• Objections to the historical claim, e.g. was the constitution a compact among the states or among the citizens.
• P.S. Objections to the claim that the United States government actually operates according to either the constitution or a social contract.
• It is, of course, a claim of certain political philosophies and not one that all people would regard as true, of course, or even coherent. 71.191.213.197 (talk) 22:25, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:1kelsen.jpg

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --08:10, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Exclusive and inclusive positivism

Should the section on positivism and ethics be edited to describe exclusive and inclusive positivism? I'm not sure if it corresponds with the "hard" and "soft" versions currently there; to be honest it is presently very vague. I think describing the necessity of the connection between law and morality would be better in terms of exclusive and inclusive positivism, which would account for much of the present literature on the topic, and also sound much better. 218.186.12.217 (talk) 11:52, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Section heading

There's a section heading called "Legal positivism and strict interpritivism". Aside from the spelling of "interpritivism", what is this supposed to mean? There's a philosophy of strict constructionism, but it's not clear that this is what the section is about, as the article needs more clarity in its prose and better development. --Michael Snow (talk) 20:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, you're raising a bigger issue than you might know. To beggin with, strict interpritation is synonamous with textualism, a belief that one should consult the existing text and the existing text only when understanding its meaning. The larger issue is that this view is not held by all legal positivists. I 'think' this reading would be something advocated by Joseph Raz or someone of his ilk. The section drastically needs to be rewritten to note the importance of the one for the other, but to more clearly state their unnecessary connection. Piratejosh85 (talk) 21:27, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Using English syntax

From the section: Legal validity and the sources of law

"Why the tendency is critical is for that the claim simultaneously opens the possibility to directly access to the constitution by those who have not direct legal interest so that the possible vein claim could be readily abused by some political movement(s) which is not regarded as normal work(s) of any law system. However, it is also true that legal positivism contributes to improve the way of legal reasoning in term of more nomothetic (rule-making) approach to a case in turn. To the point, legal positivim and legal realism are similar to each other except to recognizing the source(s) of law and jurisprudene. The reason why legal positivism is popular to are largely depending on its assimiliation to the modern normal science and its acceptance of social class theory else."

Can someone with better knowledge than I of the intended meaning of this section clean up the phrasing so that it is understandable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.143.141.15 (talk) 07:00, 19 November 2011 (UTC)