Talk:Letters patent

Royal Charter

How is the relation (in English language) between the concept of a (royal) Charter and a (royal) Letters patent? As far as my eyes can se, there is no references between these two articles. /Tuomas 13:23, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

A Royal Charter is one form of letters patent, generally for incorporating a group of individuals. Look at the Royal Charter of the BBC for an example. Pmadrid 21:24, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Confusion between a patent and a letters patent

Regarding this:

The earliest known Letters Patent were granted by Henry VI in 1449 to John of Utynam which gave him a 20-year monopoly for a method of making stained glass, required for the windows of Eton College.

there seems to be a confusion between a patent and a letters patent - letters patents are probably predating modern patents for invention. --Edcolins 19:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Google searches suggest that John of Utynam (a weird name, by the way, suspiciously close to the latin word utinam) really was granted letters patent giving him the monopoly specified, so there's no misuse of terminology or anything like that. BUT, yeah, 1449 is way too late to be the earliest known letters patent. I'm just removing it. Doops | talk 04:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt response. --Edcolins 19:33, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

It might be productive to reiterate here for others not involved in the discussion (i.e. not you two above :D) that the modern usage of "patent" as something protecting a new discovery, ultimately derives from the usage in this article (as is described in the "History of patent law" article), and that its not uncommon to see legal texts/historical texts/etc referencing "a patent of George IV containing provisions for the erection of an orphanage in Sometown"... ( and other topics... you get the point.) It just happens so that a large number of such patents provided for monopolies over new discoveries. 202.89.152.148 (talk) 10:19, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Patents of invention (commonly called "patents") were granted by letters patent (under the great seal of England). However, this is merely the most popular use of the term. Historically, letters patent were used for many purposes. Originally patents of invention were patents of monopoly, giving the grantee a monopoly in a particular trade. Under the stature of Monopolies 1623, this was restricted to inventors and for 14 years. Previously, the crown granted monopolies in other circumstances, but Elizabeth and Charles I both found it necessary to repeal a number of monoplies due to public opposition. I had not heard of John of Utinam, but his grant must have been in the nature of a patent of invention, and the fiorst of its kind by many years. Peterkingiron (talk) 22:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Deed poll

If the article Deed poll is correct, then aren't letters patent (functionally) just deeds poll of the king, covering a lot of topics since the king is (notionally) in charge of everything? 118.90.23.25 (talk) 23:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I suspect that technically you are correct. In medieval usage, letters patent were from the king to every one, in contrast to letters close, which were addressed to an individual. Nevertheless, in common parlance deeds poll are for change of name and letters patent are for inventions and appointments, though both have wider meanings. I would discourage any one even to think of merging them| Peterkingiron (talk) 15:12, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

clarifying the differences among Proforma British Letters Patent

In Letters patent#Proforma British Letters Patent, I structured the text as a table to highlight some of the differences. There are additional commonalities that could be better indicated if someone is so inclined. 67.101.6.37 (talk) 23:46, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Dukes and Duchesses	Marquesses and Marchionesses	Earls and Countesses	Viscounts	Barons	Life Barons	Life Baronesses	Baronets	Lords of Appeal in Ordinary
“ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting
Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our to the state degree style dignity title and honour of							Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion do by these Presents erect appoint and create Our to the dignity state and degree of a	Whereas Our has resigned his Office of a Lord of Appeal in Ordinary and the same is now vacant Now Know Ye that We of Our especial grace have in pursuance of the Appellate Jurisdiction Act 1876 as amended by subsequent enactments nominated and appointed and by these Presents Do nominate and appoint Our to be a
DUKE OF xxx. And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Duke of and by these Presents do dignify invest and ennoble him by girding him with a sword and putting a cap of honour and a coronet of gold on his head and by giving into his hand a rod of gold [or, if the grant is to a woman, "dignify invest and really ennoble her with such name state degree title and honour of Duchess of "] to have and to hold the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Duke of unto him and the heirs male of his body lawfully begotten and to be begotten. Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he and his heirs male aforesaid and every of them successively may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Dukes And also that he and his heirs male aforesaid successively may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Duke duly and of right belonging which Dukes of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy.	MARQUESS OF xxx. And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Marquess of and by these Presents do dignify invest and ennoble him by girding him with a sword and putting a cap of honour and a coronet of gold on his head and by giving into his hand a rod of gold [or, if the grant is to a woman, "to dignify invest and really ennoble her with such name state degree title and honour of Marchioness of"] to have and to hold the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Marquess of unto him and the heirs male of his body lawfully begotten and to be begotten. Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he and his heirs male aforesaid and every of them successively may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongest the Marquesses And also that he his heirs male aforesaid successively may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Marquess duly and of right belonging which Marquesses of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy.	EARL xxx. And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Earl and by these Presents do dignify invest and ennoble him by girding him with a sword and putting a cap of honour and a coronet of gold on his head [or, if the grant is to a woman, "to dignify invest and really ennoble her with such name state degree title and honour of Countess of"] to have and to hold the said name degree style dignity title and honour of Earl unto him and the heirs male of his body lawfully begotten and to be begotten. Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he and his heirs male aforesaid and every of them successively may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Earls And also that he and his heirs male aforesaid successively may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of an Earl duly and of right belonging which Earls of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy.	VISCOUNT of xxx in xxx. And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Viscount to have and to hold unto him and the heirs male of his body lawfully begotten and to be begotten. Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he and his heirs male aforesaid and every of them successively may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Viscounts And also that he and his heirs male aforesaid successively may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Viscount duly and of right belonging which Viscounts of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy.	BARON of xxx in xxx. And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron to have and to hold unto him and the heirs male of his body lawfully begotten and to be begotten. Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he and his heirs male aforesaid and every of them successively may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he and his heirs male aforesaid successively may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy.	BARON of xxx in xxx. And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron to have and to hold unto him for his life. Willing and by these Presents granting of Us Our heirs and successors that he may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy.	BARONESS of xxx in xxx. And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto her the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baroness to have and to hold unto her for her life. Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that she may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that she may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy.	BARONET And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the name dignity state degree style and title of Baronet to have and to hold unto him and the heirs male of his body lawfully begotten and to be begotten Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he and his heirs male aforesaid may enjoy and use all the rights privileges precedences and advantages to the degree of a Baronet duly and of right belonging which Baronets of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy.	LORD OF APPEAL IN ORDINARY by the style of BARON To hold the said Office so long as he shall well behave himself therein subject to the provisions in the said Act mentioned with all wages profits privileges rank and precedence whatsoever to the said Office belonging or in anywise appertaining and to hold the said style of Baron unto him the said during his life.
In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent. WITNESS Ourself at Westminster the day of in the year of Our Reign”