Talk:Linguistics

Minor correction needed

"Although linguistics is narrowly defined as the scientific approach to the study of language, language a number of other intellectual disciplines are relevant to it and influence its study." should be corrected to remove the redundant "a language." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jo3sampl (talk • contribs) 23:05, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Nothing in this world, Jo3sampl, is redundant. It's a grammatical error. And grammatical errors and typing mistakes are created by destiny so that they can be removed and cleaned. And because without them, this deep sense of spiritual satisfaction that we linguist-editors have the pleasure to experience, would not exist. ''FellowScientist'' (talk) 17:13, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

World map fail

I'm crazy or the map of the language distribution is completely wrong? In Brazil people do not speak the same language that people in Argentina, neither in Spain and France or Sweden and USA !!! Maybe I did not understand the map (upper right) but it is called "major world language groups" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.250.5.248 (talk) 07:50, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, I don't suppose you are actually crazy, but the map is not wrong - it seems that you do not know what is meant by a language group. All the countries you mention speak an Indo-European language. --Pfold (talk) 08:09, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, now I get it. It may be a good idea to put a symbology to explain the colors, maybe I'll learn why there are two in Australia (aborigines live across the country), and about that small green dot between Argentina and Chile. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.250.5.247 (talk) 02:32, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

The colors attempt to depict the language group with the largest number of speakers in an area. In wide areas of Australia English-speakers are few in number and concentrated in small communities, while aboriginal groups may roam over large areas. The green area between Argentina and Chile that you refer to represents the area in which the majority of inhabitants are Mapuche. -- Donald Albury 23:51, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I had been puzzled by this map earlier. Thanks for the explanation. I just reviewed the map and checked the Wikimedia Commons description page. I don't see how a naive user has a chance to interpret the map correctly. May I suggest that Donald Albury's explanation be added as a caption or linked file? I have no experience with WMCommons or images in WP, so I'm hoping for help, but I will try to do it myself eventually. Thanks -- Jo3sampl (talk) 00:14, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

That map is not part of this article, it's part of the {{Linguistics}} navigational template which is put at the top of all linguistics-related articles. Furthermore, it's not meant to be content; it's a decoration. Therefore, it would not be appropriate to add a caption, although I can update the tooltip (the text that appears when you hover your mouse over the image for a moment). I already updated the image description page on Wikipedia Commons so it contains a link to the map's legend. rʨanaɢ (talk) 00:22, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks very much. -- Jo3sampl (talk) 01:11, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion: Language Birth and Death

I would like to ask a pertinent question. Why are linguists so hooked up with language death rather than with language birth?

Shouldn't we be concentrating on new languages that are being born rather than old languages that are dying? Won't that help us more positively to maintain multilingualism in the world?

Every language has a deep structure that is multilingual. We don't need to impose multilingualism if our thinking is diverse.

I know of some books on language birth and I'd like to write about them. The authors are from places as diverse as Taiwan, Mauritius, and Schenzen. But my editing on the article is repeatedly being deleted. Is there a technical problem on Wikipedia or was I sleep-editing?

Either way, can we please incorporate these things into the article? Thanks. ElbowingYouOut (talk) 18:49, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Who says linguists aren't concerned with language birth? There are many linguists interested in creole languages as a way of studying how languages are born, and linguists studying how particular aspects of language come about (e.g. tonogenesis).

The reason your earlier edits to the article were removed are explained at User_talk:Rjanag#Rhetoric. rʨanaɢ (talk) 19:01, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

(I forgot to add the usual: "Hi Supriyya!". rʨanaɢ (talk) 19:03, 11 September 2011 (UTC))

I still don't understand what you're saying completely. I mean what - can we just add a section on creole then? I'm fine with that. ElbowingYouOut (talk) 15:13, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Your edits about creole and English are incorrect. There is no "the beginning stage of language" - creolization is one way a very particular way through which a language can come into existence, and even in those cases creolization is normally preceded by a pidgin stage. English is not a creole or a pidgin, but there are of course English based creoles and pidgins in the world, although I am uncertain why you would go into detail about those here.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:56, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I haven't read into your discussions further, but I must point out that there are serious discussions regarding the possible status of English as a creole—see the Middle English creolization hypothesis. —Bill Price (nyb) 19:26, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

There is serious discussion about a lot of things. That is not what Elbowingyouout was mentioning - in his edit he stated the hypothesis as if it were fact.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:36, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello, hello. What does Taivo mean by English was never a creole? You mean the present state of English as it is today just popped out of nowhere, Maunus? Then in that case we must also prove that no historical linguistics is being done with English as a model, since English obviously has no history. And sure, my statement was unsourced, but it can always be left open to references and sources at some later stage. Why remove the aspect completely? This entire discussion thread is a little cryptic, I must say. (I have no idea what that "Hello Supriyya" message by Rjanag meant, either, and I have no time for that. Please don't try to ward this off as me being some other user you don't like because you are unable to verbalise your article-related arguments properly.)

There is no "the beginning stage of language" - creolization is one way a very particular way through which a language can come into existence, and even in those cases creolization is normally preceded by a pidgin stage. - Maunus

Do you see the obvious contradiction in your own sentence?

I'd really be obliged if you could provide some sources to your claim that "English is not a creole". Of course English is not a creole, by the way. It's not at a creole stage in countries where English is the first language in the 21st Century, OBVIOUSLY. Grade-I information and logic. √ Check. But it was in the 13th century, like because, of history? And it is in third world and post-colonial countries because, like, again, it was introduced there later? Grade-II logic and information. √ Check.

And oh, just to state the even-more-obvious to be on the safe side: creole is not a language (like English or Spanish). Neither is it a CLASSIFICATION or a linguistic typology. Tcha. It is a development stage that every language goes through. Like human beings who go through childhood, then adolescence, then old age, and so on. You may say that human beings are not children, but then, you see... ElbowingYouOut (talk) 11:56, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

• Nonsense. That is not what the word "creole" means in the usage of any mainstream linguist. Present some actual linguistic sources arguing these claims and then we can talk.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 12:19, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Two thoughts: first, ElbowingYouOut's idea of what a creole is is utterly bizarre. Second, isn't is nice that Supriyya still takes time to visit us? garik (talk) 14:33, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

• Nonsense? Then why don't you elucidate the definition of what creole means to a mainstream linguist? And to a niche linguist too?

Garik, who's Supriyya? I'll be adding changes to the article in a while if I get no response. ElbowingYouOut (talk) 00:59, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

You have had plenty of responses. Anything you add that is not supported by sources determined by consensus to be relevant will of course be promptly removed.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:54, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Looks defensive

The very first line of the article has FOUR references. It looks defensive to have to try so hard to prove such a basic claim, like the discipline needs to prove its very fundamental existence. Whoever added it, please remove. ElbowingYouOut (talk) 15:30, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

It seems more silly to remove the references and add an unsourced definition. We have adopted the current definition, ith sources, after long discussions with some people who think that linguistics deals with programming languages or animal communication, because some linguists work with those. That is however incorrect as we have established, since the only reasons that lingusts may be interested in non-human languages is to better understand the nature of human languages. We can of course take the discussion again, but please don't assume that such deliberate decisions are not the result of discussion and deliberation among multiple specialist editors, because they are.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Percentage

What percentage of people on Earth are fluent at speaking 6 or more languages? Pass a Method talk 15:41, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

This talk page is for discussing improvements to the Linguistics article, not for other discussion (and your question is not really about linguistics). You will have more luck asking this question as the Language reference desk. rʨanaɢ (talk) 15:44, 30 October 2011 (UTC)