Talk:List of English people

Professor Moriarty

I wasn't aware this article included fictional characters, is this so? - bbcmicro —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbcmicro (talk • contribs) 00:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Wellington

The Duke of Wellington was born in Ireland, do we keep him in? -Cadr

Well, he himself supposedly said that being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse. I imagine he considered himself to be an Englishman. I think that Anglo-Irish types who made their career in England can be called English. john 06:16, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Yes I agree he should be in the list, but we'd need to change the definition at the top of the page. Does anybody have any suggestions? -Cadr

Something along the lines of 'This is a partial list of English people, alphabetically within categories. Whilst the majority listed below were born in England, those born overseas who are considered English are also represented i.e. Duke of Wellington.' Let me know what you think... - Luke

I don't believe Wellington 'considered himself to be an Englishman'. Wikipedia rightly calls him an 'Anglo-Irish British Army soldier. He was Irish and British, but not English. Xn4 00:01, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Military

A rather paltry list of military men and women. Some obvious omissions, just from late 19th Century and 20th (I know these don't accord with Wikipedia naming conventions):

Field Marshal Lord Roberts; FM Sir Garnet Wolsley; FM Viscount Alanbrooke; FM Sir Douglas Haig; FM Sir William Slim; FM Sir Claude Auchinleck; ACM Sir Hugh Dowding; ACM Lord Portal; FM Earl Wavell; Admiral Lord Jellicoe; Admiral Lord Beatty; Admiral Lord Cunningham;

[Philip Hurst 5/12/03]

Dowding

Dowding was born in Scotland. Were his parents English or did he identify with England over Scotland? If not, then I suggest that he should be removed from the list. 88.105.142.121 12:18, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Actors

• I have added Elizabeth Taylor and Leslie Howard to the Actors/Actresses page. They both had non-British mothers and fathers but were born British. Perhaps they should only be on the British people page but I think it's appropriate to put them on the English people page. WikiUser 19:17, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Simon de Montfort

• I've added Simon de Montfort. Of the categories in the contents list Other Notables seems the best place to list him. "English statesman and soldier" may not be the best way to describe him but it'll do for now. I think he is sometimes also called the father of Parliament.WikiUser 19:43, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

In the List?

• Martin Bernal
• Henry Neville
• Martina Cole

---210.128.247.147 09:07, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

• why isn't J.R.R. Tolkien in the list of famous english writers. isn't he english?

Why are The Beatles listed as the "Greatest band of all time"?

William Tyndale whose translation of the Bible formed the basis for the King James Version and had a huge impact on literature and the English Language and theology (his own work the Obedience of a Christan Man is still considered a classic).

Notice that the Venereable Bede is also missing

English monarchs

Why are several monarchs of Great Britain and the United Kingdom listed as English, this is clearly wrong, many are in fact ethnically German and many of those that are not were certainly not English, nor ever monarchs of any such kingdom. This is POV and just plain wrong.Alun 07:18, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

This whole thing has problems - how many of these people are proved / verified to be English and how many were just born there? Or does being born in England make you English now? Bretonbanquet 15:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree, we don't know how many of these people would have considered themselves English. Alfred the Great was King of Wessex and later of the Anglo-Saxons, his idea of English and our modern idea are, if not mutually exclusive, then certainly very different. Some of these people were/are certainly English, but it is very strange to claim that any monarchs after James I and VI are English, as these were all either monarchs of England/Scotland (and Ireland) or of Great Britain or of the UK, and to attribute a single national identity (English) to any one would be a distortion of history and the constituton. Alun 17:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

The article is tagged as disputed, the discussion is on which monarchs should be in the article. Is there a proposal for what should be done? Or even a statement of what the dispute is? It's no use saying "some" were not English - that's weasel words - we need a proposal of which ones are proposed to be removed. If no one has an actual proposal then there really is no dispute and the tag should be removed, it can't stay there forever. SpinningSpark 01:50, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Remove the tag!!! I would personally take the point of view when listing English Monarchs the ethnic origin is almost irrelevant as the only salient point is they were Kings and Queens of England. The fact that many are also Kings of Scotland and Wales permits their name to appear on other lists also. When England was split into several Kingdoms each king can be deemed English even though the term English had not existed at the time. They were the roots that fed the tree and can not be separated. Should one use William of Normandy of as an Example: he is a French Duke of indeterminate Viking origin and he became King of England. One could argue he was King of England but not an English King. Taking a pedantic stand on a Kings ethnic origin can marginalise their place in History and add confusion and ambiguity where confusion and ambiguity is not required. If one looks closely into the blood mix of all the Crown heads of Europe few if any were of pure ethnic origin. 21st February 2011 PROWLER2000

No Clive Owen?

Shouldn't Clive Owen be added?

Missing

There are people missing from the list. Stutley 17:02, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

there wil always be people missing and if you know of someone that should be on the list but isn't add them.Andand21 (talk) 16:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Murderers?

Is thsipart really neccesary? Scotland and Wales don't have murderers and I don't think it reflects too well 172.216.101.10 (talk) 20:10, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

They are Scottish and Welsh murderers I suspect nobody has added them to the lists yet. MilborneOne 22:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

they might not want to add themAndand21 (talk) 16:50, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Changed nationality

In the section The following were born English, but changed nationality later in their life should it be made clear that anybody born after 1707 would have British not English nationality. The only way you could be English after 1707 would be to be born in England. MilborneOne 22:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Britain is a multinational state not a nation, as Nationality implies that one is a member of a nation it is incorrect to apply the term British as refering to nationality (in the same way one can be European but ones nationality is not European) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.171.174.174 (talk) 17:12, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you probably did not understand that England is not a sovereign nation (since 1707) and the country is called the United Kingdom and the occupants nationality is normally refered to as British. The point being made is therefore you cant become English after 1707 as it is not a nationality, but somebody who was born in England would still be English a bit like somebody from Paris is a Parisian. MilborneOne (talk) 18:51, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Bands

Anybody explain how a list of people has musical bands listed in it ? MilborneOne 23:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Stan Laurel

Should we move Stan Laurel to actors and actresses because i think he deserves more than being in 'Other notables' as he was one of the team that changed the course of comedic history —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikey123321 (talk • contribs) 21:12, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I have moved him to actors and actresses as you rightly say that is his notability. MilborneOne (talk) 22:08, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Splitting the article?

It has been suggested by others that the article be split. I have been considering attempting to start pages that put contributors into meaningful historical context. Every topic has its canon in which every contributor builds on what went before. I would particularly like to see this made sense of for Evolution (canon), Chemistry (canon), and similar, ideally in a graphic form that shows lifespans and how they overlap on a timeline.

I see that there are many 'timeline' pages, see list of timelines. For example there is timeline of Muslim scientists and engineers, but there are few by country, so a new form of timeline with more detail on, for example timeline of British scientists is worth considering. --Memestream (talk) 22:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

you should spilt the articale but you could have them so they have like a home page that they all lead off ofAndand21 (talk) 16:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd much rather we split this list by geographic locale (county or region), rather than by arbitary categories about occupation or reason for fame. Indeed, we already have some pages by county, and several by city (see Category:Lists of English people by location). --Jza84 |  Talk  17:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Would this not be easier with Categories? We already have Category:English film actors - which comprises all of the first section anyway!  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 21:09, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

WP:V

We could do with some sources on this article. --John (talk) 14:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

robert pattison

How could robert pattison not be on there —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sparklesaida (talk • contribs) 20:41, 7 February 2009

He is there, in fact, he was there twice. SpinningSpark 02:06, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Christian Bale?!!!

Please... don't make me laugh! It's sweet that England's trying to claim him... but according to IMDB he's about as English as pizza. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.185.255.102 (talk) 14:43, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Did you actually read his bio on IMDB? He self-identifies as English in it repeatedly - "Being English, I tend to enjoy going down to the pub far more than going to the gym" for instance. SpinningSpark 02:15, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Muses upon Music

How come all of the members of Muse are listed here? Muse is not that significant when it comes to British music. It was also bizarre that Sumner was listed but not Curtis, so I fixed that. Maybe Mercury can be considered British? I'm thinking that no band should get more than a single mention, without a substantial, and influential body of solo work (ie, The Beatles). -- TorontonianOnlines (talk) 19:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

This is a list of notable English (not British) people and the criteria for inclusion is the same as for creating an article about them. In other words, if an English person is notable enough to have a Wikipedia page, then they are notable enough to go here. Rettens2 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:39, 19 September 2011 (UTC).

Yes, but not everyone who has a page has an entry here. Just look at New Order for a start. Bernard Sumner, Peter Hook, Stephen Morris all have separate pages, but not entries here. Same with numerous other bands. Besides if each person was added here, this list would be completely unmanageable, and would cease to be useful.

TorontonianOnlines (talk) 02:55, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm supportive of anyone with a wp page meeting the current indicated criteria of the page. But as our notability criteria for bands suggests, an individual who does not have a wp article and has only been a member of one notable band is not automatically considered notable (though they may be, as demonstrated by refs).--Epeefleche (talk) 03:06, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

No reason why if an individual is notable enough to have an article they cant be listed here. If they are not on this list it is probably because nobody has bothered yet rather than any selection criteria. MilborneOne (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)