Talk:List of accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft

The contents of this List article, including standardized format and style, are controlled by a dedicated guideline, with comments in related discussion area.

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See also: Talk:List of notable accidents and incidents on commercial aircraft/Holding zone

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American airlines crash at Buffalo NY in early 1950's?????129.44.246.73 (talk) 04:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

does anyone remember or have details of a convair Amer airlines crash in Cheektowaga, NY in the 1950's? 129.44.246.73 (talk) 04:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

List of American Airlines accidents at American Airlines accidents and incidents MilborneOne (talk) 09:38, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Air NZ/XL Airways Crash - France, November 2008

Main article: XL Airways Germany A320 Flight 888T

Details: "On 27 November 2008, (28 November New Zealand time) a leased Air New Zealand-owned Airbus A320-200 (ZK-OJL) registered D-AXLA, on a post-maintenance flight (flight GL888T) crashed into the Mediterranean Sea seven kilometers east of the French city of Perpignan, near the border with Spain. The seven people on board were killed, including four Air New Zealand representatives. The aircraft was on lease to XL Airways Germany, a European-based airline. ZK-OJL was unique in that when sequestered to Freedom Air, was painted in a remarkable Warner Brothers cartoon character colour scheme." Is this worth including? -- Danreilly123^(talk) 09:02, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

If I remember from last time this was mentioned as it was a training/test flight it didnt meet the criteria. MilborneOne (talk) 10:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

From the BEA's interim report], it seems there are procedures that will change. Regulation of test flights will improve in order to prevent some of the ad-hoc characteristics of this one. But agree, this is probably not notable in the WP:ADL sense.LeadSongDog come howl 22:34, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Time line in tabular form

The data could be used for further study.

As such, it would be convenient to have the date, time (utc), location of accident, etc. in a tabular form.

A downloadable .xls file would be nice.

Thanks.

akxyz —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akxyz (talk • contribs) 16:07, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

location could have the latitude & longitude —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akxyz (talk • contribs) 16:10, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

The latitude and longtide are in the related articles - remember this is just a summary. MilborneOne (talk) 20:11, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

How about:

Date	Airline	Fli	Aircraft	Location	Notes	D	Ref
1998-02-02	Cebu Pacific Air	387	McDonnell-Douglas DC-9	Philippines, Misamis Oriental, Mount Sumagaya, near	Crashes into a mountain, the plane is flying an unfamiliar route not well documented in maps following an unscheduled stop in Leyte to drop off two mechanics. All passengers and crew members are killed.	104
1998-02-16	China Airlines	676	Airbus A300	Taiwan, Taipei	Crashes into a residential area while attempting to land. All people on board are killed, in addition to six on the ground.	202
1998-03-22	Philippine Airlines	137	Airbus A320	Philippines, Bacolod City	Overshoots the end of the runway while landing, plowing through several houses. None of the passengers was harmed, but three people on the ground were killed and several more injured.	3
1998-04-20	TAME Airlines	422	Boeing 727	Colombia, Bogotá, El Dorado International Airport	Crashed into the mountains when it was taking off at about 16:45 local time. The plane was owned by TAME, an Ecuadoran airline, but leased to Air France. The accident was caused by foggy weather and all passengers and crew were lost.	53
1998-09-02	Swissair	111	McDonnell Douglas MD-11	Canada, Nova Scotia, Halifax, near	Crashes into the sea because of an on-board fire. Everyone on board perish.	229
1998-12-11	Thai Airways	261	Airbus A310	Thailand, Surat Thani, near	Crashes during poor weather. 146 people on board.	102

Being sortable this means it can replace this page, List of accidents and incidents involving airliners by airline, List of accidents and incidents involving airliners by location, and List of accidents and disasters by death toll#Aviation. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-08-03t16:01z

• Please see my response to this suggestion when it was brought up previously. I believe all previous points are still valid today, and in addition, in your own example above, if you use a somewhat larger font size, the table becomes very odd looking, since the actual description fields are much longer (taller) than the others. I think as bottom line that this list article should be an easy to read chronology of the more important aviation accidents. Trying to force it into a table format would be bad for all the reasons mentioned. Crum375 (talk) 18:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I have to support Crum375 I dont think a sortable table would add any value. All the key points (aircraft, airline, location, cause) are all covered by categories which would be a far better method of finding accidents then sorting this list. MilborneOne (talk) 20:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I was developing a template for listing shipwrecks awhile back, it's at User:Shinerunner/Sandbox2. The headings could be changed for this list if there's interest. Shinerunner (talk) 21:21, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

R101

I updated the inclusion criteria to clarify that a civilian aircraft operated by the government with a civilian crew to carry passengers, otherwise meeting the minimum passenger seating requirement, is eligible for inclusion in the list. Crum375 (talk) 12:32, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

That seems daft. "Commercial" implies that money changed hands, but the R101 never carried any fare-paying passengers. It was no more a commercial aircraft than the Space Shuttle, which has also carried civilians. --76.117.164.50 (talk) 14:57, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Lots of money changed hands. The large crew were all civilians and paid for their services. The passengers were mostly government employees, so the government effectively paid their fare, just like soldiers being transported by a charter operator, which we already include. Certainly this was no military operation, nor private, so it best fits into "commercial", if we adopt a broad view. The Shuttle would potentially be covered, if it transported civilian passengers with a civilian crew, and had enough passenger seats to qualify. Crum375 (talk) 15:13, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

That certainly is a broad view. However if that's the consensus here then I will accept it. Is it? --76.117.164.50 (talk) 15:16, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Here is a good source for those who'd like to read about the R101. Crum375 (talk) 15:47, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

That's a pretty minimal source but seems fairly accurate apart from the odd typo. I have a couple of books with more detailed info I can use to improve the R101 article. It needs it. --76.117.164.50 (talk) 16:17, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree, the current R101 is not in good shape. Your help there would be very much appreciated. Crum375 (talk) 17:01, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Loss of structural integrity on an aircraft

This might be added as an internal link: Loss of structural integrity on an aircraft (WP:O). -- Wavelength (talk) 16:33, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Addition to Editnotice

At Template talk:Editnotices/Page/List of accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft, I requested the addition of "Entries in draft form may be placed in the Holding zone until ready for use." (with a link to the Holding zone) onto the Editnotice, which is editprotected. Are there any objections? LeadSongDog come howl 06:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Suggested a change to the description for qualifying aircraft. --Cyber Fox (talk) 10:09, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Criteria?

Are we not in danger of now beginning to add every mickey mouse event which unfortunately is part of living in the 21st century. Can the criteria not be adjusted to exclude such events. Modern edits relating minor events are in danger of engulfing major events which are of more significance. Should the criteria not include 'injury'? Your views are very much appreciated --Cyber Fox (talk) 10:27, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

As this list is based on stand-alone articles only if they have met the notability criteria the criteria for this page doesnt really need to address the issue. This sort of issue should be discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation/Notability which has long discussion on the subject of notability of accidents. MilborneOne (talk) 13:03, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

American Airlines- Jamaica Airport December 23, 2009

American Airlines Flight Crashes at Jamaica Airport; 40 Injured Wednesday, December 23, 2009
reported as runway over shoot
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580942,00.html
--220.101.28.25 (talk) 06:44, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

JAMAICA: American Airlines plane (737) from Miami crashes in Kingston Wednesday, 23 December 2009
http://www.cnweeklynews.com/content/view/4242/66/lang,en/ --220.101.28.25 (talk) 06:58, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

No deaths in Jamaica American Airlines accident,Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:10pm IST
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-44936720091223

“MIAMI (Reuters) - An American Airlines Boeing 737 overshot the runway while landing in driving rain at the international airport in Kingston, Jamaica on Tuesday night, but the company said there were no fatalities or serious injuries.”

“The Jamaica incident is the second runway mishap for American this month. On Dec. 13, the wing of American MD-82 struck the runway in Charlotte, North Carolina, while landing, causing damage to the plane. No one was hurt.”

--220.101.28.25 (talk) 07:41, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for restriction of includable incidents

Please comment here. Thanks, Crum375 (talk) 00:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Western Airlines plane crashed December 15, 1942 - 17 killed

Here is a link to an news article: Western Airlines Plane Crash. I am new to Wiki so I'm not sure how to proceed with adding this.

KordelB (talk) 07:04, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Thany you for the suggestion. It is already covered at Western Airlines#incidents and accidents, but until there's a full article on it, it can't go onto this list per the WP:ADL criteria. User:LeadSongDog come howl 08:34, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

13APR2010 Cathay Pacific CX780 emergency landing at HKG

On 13APR2010, Cathay Pacific Airlines flight CX780 from Surabaya, Indonesia to Hong Kong made an emergency landing on the north runway at Hong Kong International Airport (HKG/VHHH) at 1343 (local time, GMT+0800). The aircraft involved was a 12-year-old A330-300, with 309 passengers, 11 cabin crews and 2 cockpit crews on board. It was reported that engine No.2 failed during mid-flight, and the flight has requested emergency landing to HKG. On final approach, the other engine encountered failure and the thrust cannot be adjusted properly. The plane was landed at a high speed and brought to full stop at the end of the runway, with all 4 tyres on the left landing gear and 2 of 4 on the right deflated. There has been small fires with the tyres. All passenger was deplaned using the emergency slides as a safety precaution. In the incident, 8 passengers were injured and admitted to hospital for treatment.

Source quoted: http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/aboutus/pressroomdetails?refID=e1eb1244996f7210VgnVCM1000000ad21c39____ http://hk.news.yahoo.com/article/100413/4/hhjo.html (Mingpao Daily, Chinese report) http://hk.news.yahoo.com/article/100414/4/hhr1.html (Mingpao Daily, Chinese report)

119.237.146.139 (talk) 05:22, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Unless something more comes out of this, I don't think the event is notable enough for its own article. -- Flyguy649 ^talk 05:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, apparently one engine was at flight idle, and the other at 70% thrust, leading to a high speed landing...[1]. -- Flyguy649 ^talk 17:17, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey

How come the plane crash that killed a Polish pesident and other people are not on the 2010 part of the list? B-Machine (talk) 15:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Because this is the list of commercial aircraft, and that accident was a military aircraft. The event is included on the military accident list. Crum375 (talk) 16:50, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Persistent Aircraft Article Vandal

IP 71.198.180.243 (talk · contribs) has been making subtle, unreferenced, and other changes to aircraft articles. I have reverted one here, as apart from poor English, the plane had only 9 aboard (inclusion criteria is 10 minimum) DIFF. Their second entry (June 30, 1951) [2] needed re-writing. FYI, regards --220.101.28.25 (talk) 04:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

One more to add

I think this could be added to the list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Airlines_Flight_933 Feel free to delete this section once added. Tempel (talk) 19:56, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

VH-BAG Lodestar Coolangatta 10 MAR 49

This isn't in the list. I might get around to it but if anyone wants to follow it up, please do. www.adastron.com/lockheed/lodestar/vh-bag.htm Wodawik (talk) 23:11, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

An article now exists about this accident and I have added it to the 1949 list. See 1949 Queensland Airlines Lockheed Lodestar crash. Dolphin (t) 00:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

LANICA Airline Hijack Dec 12, 1971 ( Should be added to the list)

Dec 12, 1971. A LANICA (Lineas Aereas de Nicaragua) BAC 1-11 jetliner is hijacked on its route Managua-San Salvador by a cell of the clandestine FSLN (Sandinista National Liberation Front) and taken to San José, Costa Rica. Costa Rica's President Pepe Figueres carrying an automatic weapon takes charge of the situation and on the ensuing affray and gunshots a fire breaks up aboard the plane, one kidnapper gets killed, the other 2 are captured. No one else is seriously injured. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickbol7 (talk • contribs) 00:26, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Javdc10020030374dioramaie0.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Stop adding 2012

Whoever keeps adding 2012 to this page, please stop. We don't know for sure whether there will be any crashes this year and 2012 should not be added until there is.--Greggy123 (talk) 16:37, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

You're the only editor who holds the less than intelligent belief that there won't be any accidents in 2012. Have you looked at all at how many aviation articles there have been in recent years? Or that there is at least one accident every year for over 70 years? There won't be any aviation incidents this year and there will be snow on the ground in South Florida before the first day of spring. You've been reverted again.- William 17:08, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

We shouldn't just be sitting and waiting for a plane to crash. It looks stupid if 2012 is empty. You don't see a Wikipedia article labeled "Deaths in 2013", do you? Of course there will be celebrity deaths in 2013, but none have died in 2013 yet, so there doesn't need to be an article. The same applies for this article. --Greggy123 (talk) 17:18, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

The difference is, it is 2012 not 2013. Be aware one more reversion and you'll be in violation of 3RR which could end with your editing privileges being suspended. A possible case of sockpuppetry could be made also. I see you reverted again. I am reporting you.- William 17:31, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

There is no need of for unsubstantiated threats. There is also no need for an empty section in any article. When there is a 2012 event, then the section should be added. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 18:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Definition of commercial aircraft

On 7 January 2012 a commercial operation involving a hot air balloon went horribly wrong in Carterton, New Zealand. The balloon crashed killing all on board – a pilot and all ten passengers. Wikipedia now has an article on the subject – 2012 Carterton hot air balloon crash. I opened a new entry for accidents in 2012 and added this accident. See my diff.

My edit was promptly reverted with the edit summary Since when is a hot air balloon considered a commercial aircraft? See the diff. I reverted this edit to restore the information about this accident.

I am not aware of Wikipedia having a formal definition of commercial aircraft. I am assuming that any aircraft being used in a commercial operation is potentially a commercial aircraft. A two-seat training aircraft can be used in a commercial operation but there would be an obvious problem if this article listed all accidents involving two-seat training aircraft. Consequently I think this article should list accidents involving commercial aircraft where the size of the aircraft excludes small aircraft of the kind that might be used in recreation. The accident in question killed all 11 people on board so it is a larger balloon than would be used in recreation.

We probably need to define what constitutes a commercial aircraft for the purpose of this article. Be aware that the word aircraft is not restricted to power-driven machines, and it includes gliders and balloons. Dolphin (t) 04:26, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

If you look at the top of this talkpage, you will see a link to the "dedicated guideline" covering inclusion criteria for this list. LeadSongDog come howl! 06:02, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that information. I see the eligibility criteria specifically exclude aircraft in operations under 14CFR Part 91 in the US or equivalent elsewhere so I have removed the accident from the listing. Dolphin (t) 07:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

A good faith addition, but unfortunately outside the scope of this list. It is linked in elsewhere, such as the list of aircraft by tail number. Mjroots (talk) 07:28, 30 January 2012 (UTC)