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[edit] Untitled
On these pages I completely miss the south low franconian language, which in germany is also known as Rheinmaaslaendisch or niederreinish and in the Netherlands and Belgium as Limburgs.
More about this language can be found at: http://taal.phileon.nl/eng/limburgish.php
Only other Germans consider these dialects Low Franconian. The "Low Franconians" and "Limburgians" themselves don't. :o)
I believe there are two reasons for this:
- In Germany the Low German dialects are seen as threatened and therefore worthy of protection: and so some of the Middle German dialects (although objectively much closer to High German) are artificially classified as Low German. Of course in the Low Countries the situation is reversed.
- In present-day Germany there is a strong (and justified) tendency to avoid any concept that might potentially lead to revanchism or irredentism. So if you equate Dutch with Low Franconian and then classify Limburgian as South Low Franconian, all the Germanic speaking people in the Low Countries simply use Dutch, right? The person who wrote this article even claimed that on the Lower Rhine all dialects had been completeley replaced by High German. What a pleasing thought! Such a clean solution! Dutch is Dutch and German is German and never the twain shall meet...
MWAK--84.27.81.59 10:19, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Picture
What is wrong with our Flevopolder here? It is not correct. Mallerd 07:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
- You mean, the Markermeer is not and possibly will never be reclaimed? Of course, you are right here. Ad43 07:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Old Franconian is NOT equivalent with "Dutch"
All dogs are animals but not all animals are dogs. Simillarly, Dutch is a Franconian product but Franconian isn't necessarily "Dutch". The reason why there is a confusion regarding the status of Limburgish in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany is because petty nationalistic-minded linguists and others (probably activists) deliberately conflate different terminologies for the purpose of diluting their meanings in order to artificially expand the territorial extent of one language at the expense of another. The fact is that both Dutch and Limburgisch are separate and destinct descendants of Low Franconian. Moreover the two are NOT mutually intelligable, even today. Therefore because of these and other reasons Limburgisch is NOT a dialect of Dutch NOR is it a dialect of the other national language (German). This status by the way is official. However some are still trying to make it so by stealthily conflating the terms "Franconian" and "Dutch". This is wrong for another reason also: it hides the fact that Dutch, to a large extent, is also is a product of Frisian a language that once was spoken as far south along the North sea coast as Flanders.
Accordingly this Wikipedia article (including the statistical figures and maps) needs an overhaul. I have done my part. But this needs further attention. Loginigol (talk) 21:03, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
- You are certainly right that Dutch descends almost entirely from old west low Frankonian and Limburgish from the eastern branch. That we cannot understand each other is a bit of a stretch. Overdrijven is ook een kunst. But you cannot understand that, right? Jcwf (talk) 00:22, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Category:Dutch language is itself a category within Category:West Germanic languages. — Robert Greer (talk) 14:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Referencing and citation: not checked
