Talk:Ludwig van Beethoven

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Ludwig van Beethoven's religious views was nominated for deletion. The debate was closed on 04 November 2011 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Ludwig van Beethoven. The original page is now a redirect to here. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Ludwig van Beethoven has been listed as a level-3 vital article in Art. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as B-Class.

WikiProject Composers

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Ludwig van Beethoven is within the scope of the Composers WikiProject, a group of editors writing and developing biographical articles about composers of all eras and styles. The project discussion page is the place to talk about technical and editorial issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!

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This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.

Comments:

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Composers Project Assessment of Ludwig van Beethoven: 2008-12-14

This is an assessment of article Ludwig van Beethoven by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano.

If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down.

Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status.

Origins/family background/studies

Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described?

Good

Early career

Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed?

Musical mentions are limited.

Mature career

Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed?

Content is disorganized; musical mentions limited.

List(s) of works

Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article.

Good

Critical appreciation

Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)?

Surprisingly lacking.

Illustrations and sound clips

Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.)

Good

References, sources and bibliography

Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references?

Article has "Further reading" and inline citations. No separate references. Inline cites are inadequate for GA/FA.

Structure and compliance with WP: MOS

Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.)

Lead is short. External links may need scrubbing.

Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review

Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE)
Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD)
Article prose needs work (WP:MOS)

Summary

I found this article to be a difficult read, and somewhat disappointing, considering the notability and importance of the subject. While the biography starts out as a somewhat typical biography, it disintegrates into a series of seemingly disjointed sections concerning events and conditions in his adult life, without notable continuity between them. The section headings and subheadings of the biographical section don't seem to have any rhyme or reason to them. There is at least one notable conflict in information between this article and Life and work of Ludwig van Beethoven: when his deafness is reported to begin. The Music section is somewhat superficial.

I find the organization of articles about Beethoven and what they cover to be confusing. The biography here has virtually no compositional components to it; we don't know from reading it when even a few of his many famous works were written. (I would expect this article to at least summarize some of this sort of information, even if most of it is in the "Life and work" article) Musicological descriptions of his style and its development over his life (something I'm sure whole books have been written about) are treated somewhat superficially. Instances of Beethoven's influence on later composers would be appropriate somewhere; there is but a brief mention in the "Life and work" article. (Note that I am not questioning or denying his influence; robust examples of e.g. another major composer using the idea of a germ-motif are what's missing.) Descriptions of some of his concerts and the public reception of his works appear to be lacking (for example, some of his concerts were notably long, and his music was not always well-received -- if it's here somewhere, I haven't been able to find it). Historical information about how his works were received or notably interpreted and analyzed throughout the time since his death is almost entirely absent.

Editors working on this article might look to Mozart and Maurice Ravel as examples of better-written articles about famous composers.

The article's structure is decent. The lead is short for an article of this length; it should be 3-4 paragraphs. There are some inline citations; no References section. Much of the article is uncited; combined with a lack of References, we have no idea where this information comes from. The External Links section could likely stand to be scrubbed, given how long it is.

This article might be B-class, but it is an embarrassment to Wikipedia in the condition it is in. Magic♪piano 03:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Germany

(Rated C-class, Top-importance)

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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.

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This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-Class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1 <!--Referencing & citations--> = <yes/no> \| b2 <!--Coverage & accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3 <!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4 <!--Grammar & style --> = <yes/no> \| b5 <!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

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Comments:

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Composers Project Assessment of Ludwig van Beethoven: 2008-12-14

This is an assessment of article Ludwig van Beethoven by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano.

If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down.

Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status.

Origins/family background/studies

Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described?

Good

Early career

Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed?

Musical mentions are limited.

Mature career

Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed?

Content is disorganized; musical mentions limited.

List(s) of works

Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article.

Good

Critical appreciation

Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)?

Surprisingly lacking.

Illustrations and sound clips

Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.)

Good

References, sources and bibliography

Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references?

Article has "Further reading" and inline citations. No separate references. Inline cites are inadequate for GA/FA.

Structure and compliance with WP: MOS

Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.)

Lead is short. External links may need scrubbing.

Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review

Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE)
Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD)
Article prose needs work (WP:MOS)

Summary

I found this article to be a difficult read, and somewhat disappointing, considering the notability and importance of the subject. While the biography starts out as a somewhat typical biography, it disintegrates into a series of seemingly disjointed sections concerning events and conditions in his adult life, without notable continuity between them. The section headings and subheadings of the biographical section don't seem to have any rhyme or reason to them. There is at least one notable conflict in information between this article and Life and work of Ludwig van Beethoven: when his deafness is reported to begin. The Music section is somewhat superficial.

I find the organization of articles about Beethoven and what they cover to be confusing. The biography here has virtually no compositional components to it; we don't know from reading it when even a few of his many famous works were written. (I would expect this article to at least summarize some of this sort of information, even if most of it is in the "Life and work" article) Musicological descriptions of his style and its development over his life (something I'm sure whole books have been written about) are treated somewhat superficially. Instances of Beethoven's influence on later composers would be appropriate somewhere; there is but a brief mention in the "Life and work" article. (Note that I am not questioning or denying his influence; robust examples of e.g. another major composer using the idea of a germ-motif are what's missing.) Descriptions of some of his concerts and the public reception of his works appear to be lacking (for example, some of his concerts were notably long, and his music was not always well-received -- if it's here somewhere, I haven't been able to find it). Historical information about how his works were received or notably interpreted and analyzed throughout the time since his death is almost entirely absent.

Editors working on this article might look to Mozart and Maurice Ravel as examples of better-written articles about famous composers.

The article's structure is decent. The lead is short for an article of this length; it should be 3-4 paragraphs. There are some inline citations; no References section. Much of the article is uncited; combined with a lack of References, we have no idea where this information comes from. The External Links section could likely stand to be scrubbed, given how long it is.

This article might be B-class, but it is an embarrassment to Wikipedia in the condition it is in. Magic♪piano 03:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Deaf

(Rated B-class, High-importance)

This article is part of WikiProject Deaf, the WikiProject which seeks to improve articles relating to all aspects of deaf-related and Deaf culture. For the Project guidelines, see the project page or talk page.

B

This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Comments:

^{edit · history · watch · purge}

Composers Project Assessment of Ludwig van Beethoven: 2008-12-14

This is an assessment of article Ludwig van Beethoven by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano.

If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down.

Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status.

Origins/family background/studies

Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described?

Good

Early career

Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed?

Musical mentions are limited.

Mature career

Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed?

Content is disorganized; musical mentions limited.

List(s) of works

Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article.

Good

Critical appreciation

Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)?

Surprisingly lacking.

Illustrations and sound clips

Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.)

Good

References, sources and bibliography

Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references?

Article has "Further reading" and inline citations. No separate references. Inline cites are inadequate for GA/FA.

Structure and compliance with WP: MOS

Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.)

Lead is short. External links may need scrubbing.

Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review

Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE)
Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD)
Article prose needs work (WP:MOS)

Summary

I found this article to be a difficult read, and somewhat disappointing, considering the notability and importance of the subject. While the biography starts out as a somewhat typical biography, it disintegrates into a series of seemingly disjointed sections concerning events and conditions in his adult life, without notable continuity between them. The section headings and subheadings of the biographical section don't seem to have any rhyme or reason to them. There is at least one notable conflict in information between this article and Life and work of Ludwig van Beethoven: when his deafness is reported to begin. The Music section is somewhat superficial.

I find the organization of articles about Beethoven and what they cover to be confusing. The biography here has virtually no compositional components to it; we don't know from reading it when even a few of his many famous works were written. (I would expect this article to at least summarize some of this sort of information, even if most of it is in the "Life and work" article) Musicological descriptions of his style and its development over his life (something I'm sure whole books have been written about) are treated somewhat superficially. Instances of Beethoven's influence on later composers would be appropriate somewhere; there is but a brief mention in the "Life and work" article. (Note that I am not questioning or denying his influence; robust examples of e.g. another major composer using the idea of a germ-motif are what's missing.) Descriptions of some of his concerts and the public reception of his works appear to be lacking (for example, some of his concerts were notably long, and his music was not always well-received -- if it's here somewhere, I haven't been able to find it). Historical information about how his works were received or notably interpreted and analyzed throughout the time since his death is almost entirely absent.

Editors working on this article might look to Mozart and Maurice Ravel as examples of better-written articles about famous composers.

The article's structure is decent. The lead is short for an article of this length; it should be 3-4 paragraphs. There are some inline citations; no References section. Much of the article is uncited; combined with a lack of References, we have no idea where this information comes from. The External Links section could likely stand to be scrubbed, given how long it is.

This article might be B-class, but it is an embarrassment to Wikipedia in the condition it is in. Magic♪piano 03:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Austria

(Rated B-class, High-importance)

Austria portal

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Austria, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles of Austria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project.

B

This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Vienna

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Vienna, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Vienna on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.

WikiProject Biography / Musicians

(Rated B-class)

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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.

B

This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.

Core

This article is listed on the project's core biographies page.

This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (marked as Top-importance).

Comments:

^{edit · history · watch · purge}

Composers Project Assessment of Ludwig van Beethoven: 2008-12-14

This is an assessment of article Ludwig van Beethoven by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano.

If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down.

Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status.

Origins/family background/studies

Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described?

Good

Early career

Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed?

Musical mentions are limited.

Mature career

Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed?

Content is disorganized; musical mentions limited.

List(s) of works

Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article.

Good

Critical appreciation

Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)?

Surprisingly lacking.

Illustrations and sound clips

Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.)

Good

References, sources and bibliography

Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references?

Article has "Further reading" and inline citations. No separate references. Inline cites are inadequate for GA/FA.

Structure and compliance with WP: MOS

Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.)

Lead is short. External links may need scrubbing.

Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review

Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE)
Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD)
Article prose needs work (WP:MOS)

Summary

I found this article to be a difficult read, and somewhat disappointing, considering the notability and importance of the subject. While the biography starts out as a somewhat typical biography, it disintegrates into a series of seemingly disjointed sections concerning events and conditions in his adult life, without notable continuity between them. The section headings and subheadings of the biographical section don't seem to have any rhyme or reason to them. There is at least one notable conflict in information between this article and Life and work of Ludwig van Beethoven: when his deafness is reported to begin. The Music section is somewhat superficial.

I find the organization of articles about Beethoven and what they cover to be confusing. The biography here has virtually no compositional components to it; we don't know from reading it when even a few of his many famous works were written. (I would expect this article to at least summarize some of this sort of information, even if most of it is in the "Life and work" article) Musicological descriptions of his style and its development over his life (something I'm sure whole books have been written about) are treated somewhat superficially. Instances of Beethoven's influence on later composers would be appropriate somewhere; there is but a brief mention in the "Life and work" article. (Note that I am not questioning or denying his influence; robust examples of e.g. another major composer using the idea of a germ-motif are what's missing.) Descriptions of some of his concerts and the public reception of his works appear to be lacking (for example, some of his concerts were notably long, and his music was not always well-received -- if it's here somewhere, I haven't been able to find it). Historical information about how his works were received or notably interpreted and analyzed throughout the time since his death is almost entirely absent.

Editors working on this article might look to Mozart and Maurice Ravel as examples of better-written articles about famous composers.

The article's structure is decent. The lead is short for an article of this length; it should be 3-4 paragraphs. There are some inline citations; no References section. Much of the article is uncited; combined with a lack of References, we have no idea where this information comes from. The External Links section could likely stand to be scrubbed, given how long it is.

This article might be B-class, but it is an embarrassment to Wikipedia in the condition it is in. Magic♪piano 03:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Version 1.0 Editorial Team / v0.5 / Vital

This article has been reviewed by the Version 1.0 Editorial Team.

This article has been selected for Version 0.5 and subsequent release versions of Wikipedia.


B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
	This article is a vital article.

This article has an assessment summary page.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 27, 2005	Peer review	Reviewed
This article was on the Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive for the week of April 25, 2007.

The content of Life and work of Ludwig van Beethoven was merged into Ludwig van Beethoven on 2008-Jan-08. That page is now a redirect to here. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

edit · history · watch · refresh

To-do list for Ludwig van Beethoven:

Here are some tasks you can do:

Article requests: Section on later years of his life, death info
Other: read Thayer's Life of Beethoven and incorporate its contents into this and other Beethoven articles. Opus33 22:47, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe this article should describe, in greater detail, the revolutionary nature of Beethoven's body of music. When one considers his greatness vis a vis other masters like Mozart and J.S. Bach, one of the greatest arguments posited by Beethoven researchers is how he fundamentally altered the very nature of music in his era (not to mention how he influenced generations of composers thereafter). Does anyone agree that this warrants more detailed discussion in the article? Best wishes!

quick nitpick, baptized is spelled wrong. No it int. It is spelt correctly.

Priority small

Archives
Archive 1: start through June 2006 Archive 2: Jul 2006 through Feb 2007 Archive 3: Feb 2007 through June 2008 Archive 4: June 2008 through January 2009 Archive 5: January 2009 through July 2010

According to many medical authors, Ludwig van Beethoven was autopsied in Vienna on March 27, 1827 by Karl Rokitansky, which identified a “uniformly dense skull vault and thick and shriveled auditory nerves”, consistent with Paget's disease of bone. This was the cause of Beethoven‘s deafness. 1

1 - Creativity and chronic disease Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827) - West J Med. 2001 November; 175(5): 298

[edit] Napoleon's "imperial ambitions?"

Although Napoleon's of relatively little significance in an article focusing on Beethoven I can't help but wonder what it means under the "religious views" section when it says "when Napoleon's imperial ambitions were made clear..." in regards to Beethoven renaming the Heroic Symphony. Beethoven was furious at Napoleon being crowned Emperor, not any revelation of vague "imperial ambitions". 70.181.39.83 (talk) 19:54, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Um, "imperial ambitions" are what being crowned as an EMPEROR (aka Latin Imperator) is all about. Once Beethoven realized Napoleon was just another another power-mad ego-inflated dictator, he was in opposition to Napoleon. (HammerFilmFan writing from a library-computer) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.255.98.162 (talk) 16:30, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Transfer information

The section "Late works" contains a lot of information that should probably be placed within the section "The three periods". Toccata quarta (talk) 05:19, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Religious views

I have merged this article as per the decision of the debate. No new materials, not already covered by the article, were found there which were substantiated by references. --Smerus (talk) 14:35, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Unclear

Regarding Julie ("Giulietta") Guicciardi, the article says Beethoven "dedicated later his Sonata No. 14, popularly known as the 'Moonlight' Sonata to her, as a 'revenge' to a gift by her mother."

The last clause doesn't make sense in English. Perhaps it's a mistaken translation from the German? Sca (talk) 17:38, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

As Steblin (2009) pointed out, Beethoven wrote an angry letter to Julie Guicciardi's mother, after he received a gift from her (as "payment" for the piano lessons he gave Julie), in which he announced his "revenge". Its eems, the dedication of the Moonlight Sonata was meant by this. John E Klapproth (talk) 06:48, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

[edit] destruction of conversation books

Under the "Loss of hearing" section, it says that "Out of a total of 400 conversation books, it has been suggested that 264 were destroyed (and others were altered) after Beethoven's death by Anton Schindler, who wished only an idealised biography of the composer to survive."

In the Anton Schindler article, however, it says "More recently, Theodore Albrecht has re-examined the question of Schindler's reliability, and as to his presumed destruction of a huge number of conversation books, concludes that this widespread belief could not be true.[4]" The citation has the quote "In any case, it now becomes abundantly clear that Schindler never possessed as many as ca. 400 conversation books, and that he never destroyed roughly five-eighths of that number."

The Beethoven article should definitely include this bit of information provided by the Anton Schindler article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.100.218 (talk) 02:37, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Ludwig van Beethoven

Contents

[edit] Napoleon's "imperial ambitions?"

[edit] Transfer information

[edit] Religious views

[edit] Unclear

[edit] destruction of conversation books

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