Talk:Luta livre

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For an October 2004 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Luta Livre

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Conflicting definitions

As I've always read about it, "luta livre" is a sort of "mixed martial art" that was developed in Brazil, and is composed of wrestling, boxing and kickboxing techniques with jiu-jitsu locks and chokes mixed in. I was just reading in The Gracie Way how Brazilian jiu-jitsu and luta livre have a long-standing rivalry, and that luta livre claims to be better at stand-up (punching, kicking, clinch). This has lead to several challenge matches between the Gracies and luta livre fighters, including a famous fight between Renzo Gracie and luta livre fighter Eugenio Tadeu that ended abruptly when the crowd rioted.

But Jdsouza recently rewrote the article to say that luta livre is really just wrestling, and that calling it a mixed martial art used in NHB is misnomer.

So, what do we agree on here?

Here's the thread I've gotten most of my info from, and everything seems to indicate that it's a MMA:

• http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13023

--Aesopian 14:48, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Luta Livre is Wrestling

Hi.

I was the one who edited the page, but I see someone else changed it again.

Just as a background, I am Brazilian, and I did practice Luta Livre in Brazil back in the 1970s. Luta Livre is Wrestling. Yes, the words mean "free fighting", but the term means wrestling. Greco-roman wrestling, submission wrestling, and even professional wrestling - these are all called Luta Livre in Brazil. Its not some Brazilian hybrid martial art.

--Joao de Souza--

Hello Joao,

As I've said from the start, I don't practice Luta Livre nor have I been able to find any good sources on it, so I am very happy you've taken control of this article. Feel free to make whatever changes you want, as you have a much better understanding of the subject than most.

--Aesopian 16:37, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

He's right, Luta-Livre is wrestling, Freestyle Wrestling to be more precise (thus the word "livre"/"free). However because of the close contact with BJJ, Luta Livre (as practiced in Rio) is a quite particular kind of wrestling since it incorporates lots of submission technics from BJJ. I mean, they were fighting BJJ guys all the time, an brazilian wrestler (a luta livre practioner) would fight a BJJ guy quite differently than an american wrestler. So I think it's fair to say that Luta-Livre is a fight system of its own. It's important however to make clear about what kind of Luta Livre you're talking: the olympic sport or the Luta-Livre practiced by Marco Ruas et al. user:FeGC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.217.79.221 (talk) 21:34, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Help me unSTUB the article

Hey folks.

I see that the Luta Livre article has been stamped with a STUB seal of disaprovement. Since I don't have any formal training in the english language, and my grammar is quite a bit funky, can someone help me with the grammar of the article? I'll also look for some good Brazilian "Luta Livre" sites matheus não sei se você me considera como xar sózinha ? que você vai tah comigu sempre que eu precisar ? EU PROMETOO TAH SEMPRE COM VOCÊ . mano , vo fazer de tudo pra ir te ver , ou essa ou a próxima semana . não vou aguentar muito tempo DD: te amo (nãocansodediz ==

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er) (eashuquevocênãocansadeouvir][brasil nota 2 1 to link to ](too many of them are about professional wrestling, and were obviously done by kids).

I'm responsible for much of this article so far, so I'll help you out with the grammar. Just let me know when you want me to go over it. I figured I'd wait until you had all the basic information you wanted in the article before I worked it over.5 brasil I can say that for someone with no formal training in English, you're doing a great job so far. Keep up the good work. :) --Aesopian 17:46, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

What about Luta Livre Esportiva?

Hi, it's my first time writing here in wikipedia, and when I looked for the article "Luta Livre" I was expecting to find an article about Luta Livre Esportiva (which is very often mistaken for pro wrestling or amateur wrestling).

Luta Livre in Brazil might refer to pro wrestling (which has also been very popular here in the past), amateur wrestling (as in olympic wrestling, either greco or freestyle), and luta-livre esportiva (the fighting style of Alexandre "Pequeno" Nogueira, Márcio "Cromado" Barbosa, Alexandre "Cacareco" Ferreira, and Hugo Duarte). Luta Livre Esportiva is the modern form of the style that was developed in Brazil in the late 20's (called luta-livre too) that has it's roots in greco-roman wrestling. I think that there should be a disambiguation article on luta livre, and there also should a re-directing article with the other possible spelling (luta-livre). I think I could do most of this, but I just don't know crap about HTML and have never written on wikipedia before. --bgperes, 25 Jan 2005

Hi again.

Pro Wresting (the fake stuff made for TV) is actually called "Telekete" (I'm actually not sure of the spelling) in Brazil. Luta Livre refers more to greco-roman wrestling. Luta Livre Esportiva is what one would call "Catch wrestling" or "submission wrestling" in English. Yes, it was developed independently in Brazil, therefore the rules vary a bit, but its still wrestling.

--jdsouza, 14 May 2005

Has anyone seen this interview yet?

http://www.sherdog.com/news/interviews.asp?n_id=1615

It's with Pride veteran/pyrotechnic victim Johil de Oliveira, the gentleman that runs the Luta Livre Budokan in Rio de Janeiro:

"It was my father who brought me to the academy and I had fun at not only training Luta-Livre positions, but I got a passion for this martial art and I am a Luta-Livre fighter."

Is it or isn't it a martial art?

Yes it is a martial art. Just as wrestling is also a martial art. Many of the more respected names in MMA have a background in wrestling. What it is not is a Brazilian Hybrid martial art.

hi,

i`m jose and I`m a huge fan of luta livre, but I study brazilian jiujitsu and they have the same simalereties, same moves like triangle and armlocks. they are the same but, it has leglocks so I think that luta livre is better. If you have the game ufc:sudden impact game in you make a fighter in the story mode , when you beat the pro wrestling dojo, you get the luta dojo.. when I tried the dojo, it felt like pro wrestling so I don`t know if thats how it is, maybe is the esportiva but it has alot of pro wrestling moves like [that fake ddt] and so I feel that luta livre is brazilian professional wrestling, but take a look at some studiers:marco ruas, renato babalu sobral [before gracie barra learning tequeniques] and ebeneezer braga, their style looks like bjj inseated of pro wrestling so maybe there is the luta livre vale tudo, so my point is luta livre is not that famous because of the tequniques [even though, it has bjj moves] or they learn esportiva and it feels wierd.

Vandalism

I've reverted to a previous version due to someone replacing the whole page with the word "penis". The version I reverted to seems to be free of vandalism. HardCopy 00:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

The new article is Luta Livre Esportiva, NOT luta livre.

Some anonymous person completely edited the article with the history of Luta Livre Esportiva, not Luta Livre. The two are NOT the same! Luta Livre means Wrestling. See this link for example. That's the official Brazilian Olympic Wrestling page for the 2008 Olympics. Also, the new edit is very much focused on Luta Livre in Germany, and even all of the links are to German websites. Jdsouza (talk) 20:55, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Locking the page?

User Lottagrappling plus one anonymous user keep on reverting the page to one that has completelly wrong information on it. They are trying to describe Luta Livre as a Brazilian MA developed in Brazil in the 1970s then brought over to Germany. If anyone has any doubt Luta Livre is wrestling, see the links below:

http://olimpiadas.uol.com.br/2008/album/080820lutalivremasc_album.jhtm

http://pequim.espn.com.br/espn/site/olimpiadas/noticias/lutalivre/noticia0001.html

http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/olimpiada/modalidades/luta_livre/

http://www.quadrodemedalhas.com/olimpiadas/jogos-olimpicos-pequim-2008/luta-livre-olimpiadas-pequim-2008.htm

Contacting Lottagrappling?

I've been trying to contact user Lottagrappling regarding the editing of this article to no avail. I've tried via this discussion page as well as his user discussion page bu so far there has been no reply. My next step will be to request some mediation.

As I have pointed out ad-nauseum, Luta Livre is the Portuguese lnaguage term for Wrestling. I have provided several links above to back up my claims.

Lottagrappling's version of the page has Wrestling as a Brazilian MA. I also find it somewhat fishy that his version of the story is told by a German Luta Livre instructor, all of the links are to pages in Germany, and the same instructor is the only one that comes up in Google when searching for what he describes as one of the "main styles of Luta Livre". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdsouza (talk • contribs) 17:50, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Someone fix this, I would do it myself my I don't want to get in the middle of a revert fight. Luta Livre's first meaning in Portuguese is Freestyle Wrestling, it is a *direct* translation of it and in existence for decades before the "Vale Tudo" phenomenon. It is how the Olympic Freestyle competitions are names. At the very least this should be made apparent in the article.--83.132.170.15 (talk) 18:21, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

No, it is not "freestyle wrestling". It is just wrestling. And Olympic wrestling is not "Freestyle". Its greco-roman. Jdsouza (talk) 19:08, 24 September 2009 (UTC)